Brian,
Sounds like a great event!

I will try and make it.

I believe that this debate needs to include a conservative friend of mine.

Mr. Karo Gary Ohanian.

Brian;
As you know I am currently serving in Iraq near the base of the Sunni triangle and very close to the town of Ah Dujal. For those that have never heard of this town, it is the town where Sadaam Hussein is said to have over 150 people put to death for an attempt on his life. It will be the primary charge against him when his trial starts next month. In my travels here I have meet dozens of victums from Sadaams reign of terror. So because of this experience I feel I may come across as being overly biased, I hope not.

I believe we should get out of here as soon as possible, but what does that mean? If one believes an immediate withdrawel will be of benefit they are delusional at best. If there are any people that think we will not have a presence here in ten years they are probably not students of history, we are here to stay. The only honest debate should be in what capacity.

I also want to state for the record that we must stay on the current course for the most basic of reasons, we are now fully commited like it or not and as Forrest Gump so aptly put it "A promise is a promise". Our actions three years ago and today dictate we keep our word. I know the word was not unanimous but that is of no concern now, we must see this through.

It is important to note that the middle east is getting safer as we speak. One only must look at Egypt and Isreal and the return of the Gaza strip. And what about the voter turnout here in Iraq? I often times watch television broadcast from Syria and Jordan and see a very clear move towards Democracy. We must be patient and understand that it is the security of the entire region one must think of.

I ask only one thing of those that will represent others in this upcoming debate. Please try to honestly defend the view that opposes's your own before you defend yours, and do so with passion. Remember also this, I want to live and am saddened and angry by our almost constant loss of life and American soldiers. But there is a price to be paid for peace in this region and the chance for little girls to one day be more than property to work the fields. I am willing to pay that price and do so of my own volition and do we all that serve our country.

Thank YOU for making demcoracy work and we will see to it that it survives.

Elias,

I will share your words with others. Thank you again for what you are doing. I pray often for the safety of our troops and for the people of Iraq to be able to build a democracy that respects human rights. I agree that we will not be pulling all of our troops out of Iraq in the near future.

To other readers:

I have chatted with Elias for sometime. He also runs a blog on The Star's website. Post either here or there some kind words for our brave men and women. They deserve it.

His blog is:

http://blogs.venturacountystar.com/vcs/elias/

If you have something you want known at the debate but can't be there. ( For example you are in Iraq) please leave a comment and I will bring them.

*shaking my head* Poor baby, sent to fight an illegal war, based on lies. Of course we can't pull out immediately now. We broke it, we own it. And our soldiers and innocent civilians will continue to die because of the actions of this wreckless and depraved administration. Our nation will continue to be bankrupted, and we are no safer now than we were on 9/11. Probably less safe, as we continue to create more terrorists and enemies. We must create and implement a measured plan to withdraw our troops, and repair the damage to our credibility in the world.

Laura,

Have you read Elias's blog? Some great stuff in there. You should read some of the progress he has reported.

You agree we can't pull out. How do we end it then? If we slowly pull out, isn't that the same? How do we build a democracy that supports human rights, and is a proud member of the international community? if we left soon, wouldn't an iran style government form? or massive civil war?

I don't know the answers, i am just asking the questions.

Brian Dennert

OK, I probably can't make it, so what kind of brief thought can I leave here about the debate?

We were led into Iraq under false pretenses,
and we need to get out ASAP and pay recompense
for the damages we wrought on the country. And
turning over GWB to the Iraqi authorities or
the International Court for war crimes seems
perfectly appropriate, too. Not that that's ever going to happen...

But I presume that that all would be old history at this meeting? If I was able to go, I would want to find out what we might do now to pry the jackboot of US corporate war profiteers off of the throat of Iraqi society and how we can talk Congress into closing down the 30-some bases we've opened up there.

And, yeah, what's with the "Anti-War Activist"? Where's the Green Party in this debate? It's not like they don't exist in the county. Once again, the Dems demonstrate that they are more interested in marginalizing and silencing the left to try to protect their power base than to truly represent the people. Fortunately, I think the Libs and Greens are pretty close on the Iraqi Invasion issues, so I trust that that view will be represented between the Libs and the "Anti-War Activist," whomever that might be.

Finally, Brian, you make an interesting passing comment: How do we leave Iraq without leaving behind a Muslim theocracy in place? We probably can't, and frankly, US leaders need to stop trying to manipulate local communities to set up the puppet governments that represent our interests. So the entire question of what we want in their government is entirely misplaced. All we can and should do is to try to create a neutral field for the Iraqis to decide what government they want, whatever that may be. Of course, I'm not so naive as to think that the US government would ever do that; but they would if they truly wanted to practice US values rather than protect US "interests."

OK, I'm done preaching. Have a productive meeting.

Maybe I should come to this event, but unfortunatly, I am in Irvine due to school at UCI.

I have thought over some of my former positions on the war, and have considered options such as pulling out of Iraq due to the current conditions, but im still pressing that we should end what we started, and we should end it well. We cannot pull out right now, but if we did have a choice, my desicion would be, yes, we should evac all our troops out of Iraq. We never anticipated all of this resistance, and the bombings continue on day after day with absolutly no end. We are losing our moral, but more importantly we are, sort of, shooting ourselves in the leg. If anyone saw the interview with Barbra Walters last week with Colin Powel, he said it himself that he was fed "misinformation". Where ever that misinformation came from will remain unknown for a long time.

But if I did have a solid choice of pulling out of Iraq, I would. The only problem is that we cant leave the work undone. Well atleast the trials to Saddam are getting closer, and well see how that turns out. Hopefully he will be honest about himself and his past.

Unfortunatly, the situation in Iraq is degrading by the day, but we still need to continue what we started, not only would it create a terrible political pickle for the US if we pulled out half done, it would cripple our chances of ever trying to negotiate with others about situations like this.

Gary O'Hanian :D

PS. I would love to come to this debate, but next week I start school at UCI so I wont be able to make it. Im sorry :(

The war in Iraq is being fought for the financial gain of Halliburton and company and Dick Cheney. How sad!

Well THIS Democrat doesn't hate the Greens, and I don't know any that do. I'm also not interested in marginalizing and silencing the Left. I'm part of the Left. I think the Greens bring a lot to the table and should be included in any discussions and debates. I don't blame Stuart for being distrustful of us though. Some didn't treat him fairly or with the respect he deserved during the campaign last year...where, by the way, he made an awesome showing in the election, pulling in numbers way over the Green base in the district. So to dismiss the Green party and it's members would be a foolish mistake..nationally and in Ventura County. Coalition against the Right, anyone?

I don't really understand how so many members of Congress and prominent leaders (eg, Powell) came to agree with the Bush administration to wage war with Iraq. I really can't remember any compelling evidence that the administration offered to bolster their claims of WMD and Al-Quaeda connections with Iraq, so I opposed the war from the start. However, as many people have pointed out, whether we were right or wrong to wage war, we already made our choice long ago and must look to our current circumstances in order to determine the best course of action. So one discussion I hope emerges from this debate has to do with the trade-offs we may expect from "staying the course" vs. "cutting our losses."

First of all, can we continue to divert attention and resources to the war effort in Iraq, while other potential threats take a back seat (Iran, N Korea, etc...)? Are these threats eminent or have they all fizzled out? Do the resources drawn to Iraq jeopardize our national security at home?

Second, how much longer can we continue funding this war? As one of the respondents on this blog suggested, we may very well expect a US presence in Iraq ten years from now. Can we sustain this economic draw for ten years? And how often should we expect $80 billion requests from the president?

Can we endure the decline in morale for much longer? US troops still die almost every day, and every now and then, it's someone we know or someone from our home town.

I would like to hear the answers to these questions weighed against the expected results of a withdrawal. If we are lucky, the participants may offer some thoughtful insights on these issues, rather than just meaningless chatter. -C

Carlos,

Should the government that started the war be held to account?

Like maybe replacing the president with a war leader like John McCain?

So,

You are all saying the Iraqis were better off under Saddam Hussein?

Scott

I keep hearing you're bloggers saying "illegal war" and that this war is being fought for financial gain.

If this is how these individuals feel, I'm wondering if they support putting Saddam Hussein back in power.

I think it's a good thing Sadaam is going to trial finally and I hope that he gets the death penalty for the genocide he committed on Kurds and his political enemies. I felt he should have been removed in the first gulf war and this was long overdue.

It's a good thing he's gone. I don't know how you win a war against Zarqawi with Al Qaeada his thugs by bringing the troops home.

Brian:

I really don't know what you mean by war leader? The electorate chose George Bush to execute this war. John McCain supported George Bush in the last election. Did you support John McCain's choice?

I think Sadaam was trying to get weapons of mass destruction since he took power and the intent is enough for me. I know a lot of people want to pay deferrence to Saddam as a soverign power like the french, but to me he's just another dictator who treatened and was threatening his neighbors.

You seem intent on taking shots at me in your recent posts like I care more about developers than bike lanes for kids or that I have talking points from Karl Rove. Feel free to take more shots if it makes you feel better... I don't swing at pitches in the dirt.

I think your talking points comment was pretty funny actually....

Scott

Brian:

If you think the bike lanes are insufficient, I will work with you on getting it up to what the comunnity wants. This has nothing to do with smart growth for me. I just think bike lanes are a good idea. This isn't about being right, this is about getting it right for our community.

I am extremely worried about the war in Iraq and just want to thank anyone who has family members currently serving over there. One of my friends has done two duties over there and lost one of his best friends. He is still committed to the fight, but worries because he says it's tough to fight people who hit and run.

I think the WMD debate is over and we need to focus like a lazer beam on the current situation we are in. But, I think the admininstration was incompetant in dealing with the intelligence.

From a geopolitical standpoint, I think its a good move to surround Iran the way we did with our invasion of Iraq. Iran now shares two borders with our military and to me, that's not a bad idea. Remember, these are people who held our diplomats hostage and heavily funded hezbollah and the PLO against the Israelis destroying any chance of a peace agreement near the end of the Clinton administration's last ditch efforts at Camp David.

I think the terrorists and their Baathist allies, like the North Vietnamese, are counting on use to show little support for this war. They hope we go home and deal with Katrina, so they can pursue the goal of creating a united caliphate of Arab nations bent on the wahhabi interpretation of the koran and pursuing WMD and getting terrorists into this country to kill American citizens.

Sorry terrorists. This is America, we can deal with a hurricane and fight you any day of the week. We did screw up on Katrina and people should be fired, plain and simple.

I think we need to engage in more Marine engagements like in Fallouja back in January where we go in a clean out the place. I know a lot of people don't like me saying these types of things, but we gotta put a fist in the face of the enemy, so they can't take out as many of our guys.

We need to atart striking at their weaknesses instead of letting these killers hide amongst the masses.

We need to continue to fully train the Iraqi troops to secure Iraq. We need to continue to go after terror money until all they have is rocks to throw.

And yes, we need to allow the french and germans to participate in the contracts issue. Once, they have contractors on the ground, it'll bleed over into further support in other areas like security. We need to mend the atlantic divide because our interests are too close not to

I also think we need to start taking Homeland Security more seriously too. I've read some things while I was on vacation that would just bend your ears back.

Folks, We are not ready for another terrorist attack. We have got to get this in order.

Did I answer everything, Brian?

Scott

Yeah,

I don't like those words smart Growth. It smacks of we know better than you do... "We're smart, just believe us and you'll have a great community." That's a bunch of bull...

In iraq I worry a lot about unintended consequences in our current foreign policy that we don't even see today. We didn't take the USS Cole the right way or Khobar Towers, or the attacks on our embassey and look at what happened.

What will mismanaged efforts do to other security threats? Embolden them to challenge us and pursue further weapons of mass destruction? It just undermines our credibility when we want to do something in the world. We cannot fail, plain and simple.

We must have a functional democracy in Iraq or be prepared for the success of the radical elements of islam to be emboldened to challenge us on a much larger scale than we saw on september 11th.

Meanwhile, watch for China to challenge us within the next 10 years as the global leader in everything.

We must get our act together by getting top education to the kids, developing top skills in technology and human resource development and develop new technologies to compete or we are going to fall behind this already competitive world.

And yes, we need to get off foreign sources of oil and get our butts together on hybrid and hydrogen cars. Our dependence is being exploited by oil-nations and is hurting our national security. We cannot afford this weakness anymore.

Scott

Brian:

Are Sunni Baathists who are perpetrating a lot of terrorist events in Iraq right now, radical enough?

Zarqawi's fundamentalists are radical and enemies of a stable government in Iraq right now as well, but I think we are splitting hairs as to who is more radical.

Both have killed and are killing innocent people to try and destroy any legitimacy/stability to the new Iraqi government. Plain and simple...

I cannot wait for the trial of Sadaam Hussein... If you have even looked at what he did over his reign, it is genocide, murder, and torture. He deserves to pay for his crimes.

I don't think the US is responsible for the radical elements coming out of the woodwork if that is what you are getting at. We are fighting Al Qaeada and their allies in Iraq right now and a lot of people in this country are saying we shouldn't be there.

Didn't Al Qaeada perpetrate 9/11? I don't care if they are in Iraq, Jordan, Syria, or Afghanistan. We need to go after them with full support from the US government and the people.

I don't believe in giving Al Qaeada and groups like them a break or an exit strategy to hope for, so they can plan more misdeeds like the US Cole or the Embassey bombings or even 9/11 style attacks in the US. They are a threat plain and simple whether they are in the Sunni Triangle or in the New York Subway system...

There was no link between Sadaam and 9/11, but seriously, if there are Al Qaeada elements in Northern Iraq right now, why is everyone wanting to put their head in the sand and pretend Al Qaeada will just go away.

We leave, Iraq will be another radical hotbed, like Afghanistan before Operation Enduring freedom. We can't leave and give one inch to Al Qaeada and their Baathist allies. It would just embolden them to pursue their agenda on a much more radical scale...

Scott

Brian:

Saudi Arabia was more of an oversight on my part. I didn't mean to leave them off the list. I believe they have been, like Jordan, more cooperative with the US going after terrorists locally since 9/11, but I would like to see more of a movement to allow political dissent in their country and other precursors for democratization.

If Syria is a staging ground for terrorists and Iran is trying to move the soverign borders of Iraq and infiltrate with more terrorists, I think options need to be entertained, either diplomatically or militarily, to de-link them from the Iraq situation.

Brian: Do you accept the current strategy where Al Qaeada sits in camps along the Syrian border and then crosses into Iraq and kills American troops and Iraqi civilians?

Am I prepared to go if called upon to serve? Yes.

Brian: Past is Prologue...

We are either heading for decades of terrorist attacks in America because we withdraw and hide behind the facade of fortress America or we go until the job is done.

Do we all at least accept Al Qaeada is in Iraq now? If we back down, we will lose a lot more lives than we lost on 9/11.

I don't want to accept that future as reality.

Scott

Brian:

I think we need to redefine the tactics in going after the terrorists/insurgents. For instance, my friend who served two tours so far in Iraq said his humvee would drive the same path each day at the same time.

So, basically our tactics of securing baghdad are easily compromised when our humvees are driving the same path each day at the same time. Basically, they are RPG magnets.

If this is any indication of how the war is being run, I have grave concerns.

I still don't think we have totally identified who the enemy really is as of yet either. How, can we exploit our opponent, if we don't know who they are, what they want, where they are coming from, what their weaknesses are, what their strengths are?

We are just dismissing them as insurgents and not really identifying the enemies characteristics, so we can take them out.

How are they getting their weapons? How are they getting their money?

Start answering those questions and this war will change drastically.

Scott

Brian:

I also don't think we are at world war status as of yet. World war, for me, is defined by entire societies being mobilized and prepared for war. I think we as a society aren't even really mobilized for a hurricane let alone a serious terrorist incident.

The American government will most likely be unable to respond rapidly to the next terrorist incident to meet the needs of the population causing greater panic than we saw in the aftermath of Katrina.

Another terrorist incident is my largest fear, which is why I will argue over and over for increased homeland security measures and funding immediately even if that means an increase in my income taxes to achieve it. We can do better and I don't want to go through a terroist incident before we take homeland security the right way.

We also need to mobilize our homeland through programs like CERT and other public service systems to create public awareness and educate the public as to what to do.

We have not done enough to secure and prepare our society for the next attack. Everyone knows it, yet no one seems to step up and say that we need real safety measures. We may very well be in the next world war, but we are governing like its September 10th, 2001.

Brian:

Threat assessment and dollars spent should not be determined by an Omnibus homeland security spending package that gives money so ranchers can watch and make sure their manure doesn't fall into the wrong hands while the coast guard and customs doesn't have enough funds or manpower to ensure Box containers do not contain chemical or biological weapons.

This spending allocation method is dead wrong especially, because CA sends a lot more money to the feds than it ever gets back to protect LA or the Golden Gate bridge.

We have identified who they are. Now, where is their money coming from? What nations are helping? You know people just don't know how to make car bombs without intelligence training. Iran used to give tons of training to hezbollah and this looks very similiar to Beirut in the 1980's. Who is giving them the technical assistance? Start going after the sources and probably all they'll have left is rocks.

Also, start setting up the GPS grid throughout Iraq. If a bomb goes off, our intelligence could track down where they went and launch a cruise missile in their bathroom.

We need to use our technological advantage better. Start setting up cameras throughout society, so we can track what's going on and who is doing what.

I'm thinking out loud, but we can start to widdle these terrorist insurgents down. Our troops should have access to the best material and technology to win this fight and create a real advantage.

Scott

Today,

US Forces announced the killing of Abu Azzam, the No. 2 man for Al Qaeada in Iraq. I just want to say good riddance. This criminal terrorist has perpetrated and coordinated numerous attacks on Iraqi civilians and American Soldiers.

Too bad no one wants to put the blame for our challenges in Iraq on those who are really responsible, namely terrorists like Azzam.

Scott