I hope they set a new record removing shopping carts this year.

Do they have a roller coaster called "Pirates of the Enviorment"?

How about letting strip clubs in town and then getting a free tour? In Paris, the sewer system tour is popular. In Amsterdam, there are tours of the red light district. In Argentina, tourists can see the slaughter houses. So why not a tour of Simi Valley's soon to be mega dump?

Why not a tour? Well, there already is a tour. I think all of the dump's expansions critics should take it.

Barbra Williamson, have you taken a tour? Do you know if other council members have toured the site?

I love how some vocal WM critics seem unwilling to take a tour and learn more about the local landfill operation. It would seem to be a great opportunity to educate yourself on the issues. Then again this isn't about learning the facts now is it.

Yes, I have taken the tour. I don't know if other Council Members have or not, but I would guess they have.

Yes, I have taken the tour. I don't know if other Council Members have or not, but I would guess they have.

Yes, I have taken the tour. I don't know if other Council Members have or not, but I would guess they have.

I think they should promote tours of the Simi landfill all over the State, since we are getting everyone else's garbage thanks to Foy and Bubba Kidd.

Hey hey...We can't fault Supervisor Foy for the "dump"....let's play fair. And since I don't know who Bubba Kidd is, I don't think we should point fingers at him/her either. But, lets make sure that this go around we are all on the same page and we really look at Waste's proposal before it gets to the Supervisors so they know where the residents of Simi Valley stand. OK?

Barbra's right! In the future there will be a different sort of landfill than there is now and the issue that's most important is not preventing that future but making sure that the negative impacts on the community are offset by an equal amount of positive benefits. That's just plain common sense, not politics.

GS, you are usually better than that. The point is that at 89 million tons of garbage it will become a mega landfill more than three times the size of the average dump in the U.S. Who cares about how it operates. We don't want to go in to the landfill business. Who cares how it will operate, with or without falcons, as example. The reality is that Simi has not previously been a destination spot for culture or entertainment. Finally. we have a nice mall, the Presidential Library and Williamson working day and night to make it more upscale community. Why would we want to be known as the home of a mega dump?

Forgive me for seeming to be resigned. I don't want a mega dump either and I'll fight that tooth & nail. My reason for helping to popularize this issue is that this community needs to know it will have to bear the consequences of whatever form the dump takes in the future, whether it stays the same size or expands 20% or 200% or (God forbid!) 2000%. If WMI wants the community to take on those consequences it should be prepared to pay...big time.

The good news about the new mega dump is that is will make Rocketdyne look like a day in the park when we start getting the toxic runoff into our homes, schools and businesses and the cancer rate triples.

GS, Bubba Kidd have you guys toured the dump? I think most of the information is available elsewhere ( like on WM's website ) but it was informative.

I think a reasonable person could be against the dump without touring based off of other factors like truck traffic on the 118 if it had a huge impact.

I have not toured the dump but I expect that will happen pretty soon. You're right about the off site factors and their potential for bigger problems than the site itself.

Bubba Kidd have you toured the dump?

GS, when are you going to tour the dump?

One thing that everyone needs to keep in mind....its not only the expansion of the dump in land acres, but how many stories HIGH will that 838 acres be? Think about it folks.....839? acreas, 5 stories high....it will be hugh!...
We will have trucks hauling trash in, some will be recycled, and HAULED out....We will have trucks coming and going....Waste Management is going to spoon feed you what they want you to hear...

Not GS....when I'm invited.

Brian,

I wasn't aware they were giving tours, but I will definately make plans to take one now that I know it is something being offered. I disagree that a "reasonable" person can be opposed to the dump (or anything else for that matter) without first making an attempt to educate themselves on the issue. Being opposed to something without the information to support your position is irresponsible. Individuals in a democratic society have an obligation to become informed citizens, otherwise you end up with emotional arguments that are often based on rumor and misinformation. Why are people so afraid of educating themselves? It seems like some people want to be right so badly that they are willing to ingnore anything that might put their pre-conceived ideas at risk.

I've attended similar things on a variety of issues such as transporation, water, energy, public safety, and education. Each time I have come to understand things that may not have been apparent to me until I talked to professionals in that industry. Brian, I would imagine that you would support voters becoming informed on public education rather than jumping to conclusions based on rumor and hearsay. That makes them more informed people and more likely to make good and rational choices. Why then do you think knowing more about waste management isn't necessary? Those that are passionate about this issue have an obligation to become informed so that their opinions are based on the facts instead of emotions.

Bubba, I didn't say voters shouldn't be educated but it isn't practical for everyone to go on a tour. I just mentioned people could also look over their website as one alternative.

My exact quote was:

"I think a reasonable person could be against the dump without touring based off of other factors like truck traffic on the 118 if it had a huge impact."

The potential for truck traffic on the 118 could be a deal killer regardless of the stuff someone could learn on the tour.

I haven't seen all of the final figures on truck traffic to say that is the case, but that it could be.

Don't you agree 118 truck traffic could be a deal breaker for a logical person?

One thing that everyone needs to keep in mind....its not only the expansion of the dump in land acres, but how many stories HIGH will that 838 acres be? Think about it folks.....839? acres, 5 stories high....it will be huge!...
We will have trucks hauling trash in, some will be recycled, and HAULED out....We will have trucks coming and going....Waste Management is going to spoon feed you what they want you to hear...

Does anyone know how we can request public records to see what other council members have met with Waste Management to discuss the expansion or tour the site?

along with the height and size of the landfill, consider that 3200 trash trucks lined end-to-end take up about 19 miles of freeway space. Add to that the trucks and vehicles hauling recyclables and other tonnage and that line could grow to about 25 miles in length. How will they possible manage to get on and off the 118 frwy each and every day? The volume of exhaust pollutants and the waste of fuel alone should make people cringe.

Barbra

Sounds like you already oppose the landfill expansion. Is that the position of the committee? Who is on the committee?

Would you ever support it?

I haven't seen the facts on the truck traffic. Are you actually saying that there would be 3,200 trash trucks driving on the 118 freeway every day? That sounds like a heavily inflated figure. My guess is that local WM doesn't even operate that many trucks. I'd like to see some actual data since that seems to be a sensationalized statistic. Send me a link to where you saw that number.

Given the amount of traffic that already flows on the 118 freeway, and given that there are plans moving forward to expand the freeway I can't imagine that the major issue here would be the number of trash trucks on the highway. I drive the 118 pretty regularly and have never been concerned about the number of trash trucks. I would also guess that if you lined up all the automobiles that commute on the 118 every day it would probably be long enough to cross the entire USA. So what does that prove?

Most of what I read in these blogs on this issue is speculation and political rhetoric. We need to move beyond that and get to the facts so we can make informed decisions. Making statements that Simi Valley will be transformed into a toxic waste dump or that the 118 freeway will be a logjam of garbage trucks seems more than a bit alarmist.

Brian

Are you saying you are Richard Nixon in this case and that China is the dump?

Are you making deals with Waste Management just like Nixon and Mao?

100,000,000 tons of trash divided by 30 years divided by 8 tons per vehicle times 30 feet of freeway space per vehicle equals about 19 miles of trucks per day of operation. Add to that all the trucks bringing and taking taking recyclables away and you've got a really long line of vehicles trying to exit and enter the 118 Frwy.

Conventional wisdom and recent experience tell us that we can't expect to get any facts from either our local leaders nor their business colleagues until we've asked the hard questions about isues like Rockedyne and WMI's expansion. We've been waiting for more than 22 years for answers about Rocketdyne. The Williamson Commission isn't going to wait that long to learn about the expansion.

Bubba, I didn't quote any figures. Reread my post. I just said truck traffic COULD be a large enough factor for a reasonable person to turn against the project. Do you agree?

Bubba, I edited your post by taking my name out of it. I don't want someone to read it and think I was quoting a figure that may or may not be true.

I think the truck traffic issue is entirely speculative and I've seen no independent information to corroborate what some people are saying around here about a 19 mile long line of trucks. I'm not aware of any landfill anywhere in the world that operates with that kind of volume so my hunch is that these arguments are pure fiction designed for no purpose other than to scare people. These arguments are being made by the same people that call everyone they disagree with a right wing facist, and who insist that any expansion of the landfill will result in Simi Valley becoming a toxic waste dump. If nobody can provide links to some objective information then I have no reason to believe the issue of truck traffic is real. Provide the information and I'll be happy to take the time to read through it and give you my opinion. But at this point I don't have enough information to tell you if this is an issue or not. And my guess is that neither do you.

Bubba

Barbra Williamson, a public official, wrote it. Is it your hunch that she's writing "pure fiction"?

I think I'll let Barbra speak for herself. The claim of a 19 mile long line of trucks did not come from Barbra. Just give me the facts and I'll form my own opinion on the subject, thankyou.

Good Morning Everyone...
You're correct Bubba Kidd...I didn't say there was going to be a 19 mile convoy of trucks. I don't know how many trucks at this point, that is why we have formed the committee...to get the facts, only the facts...

I believe I'm the one that broke the potential hauling down to the image of a 19 mile long line of trucks. Figure it out for yourself: WMI is asking to dump 100,000,000 tons of waste within a 30 year (or less) period. WMI says each truck hauls about 8 tons daily. If delivery occurs 5 days a week that means it will take 1667 trucks each day to haul waste into the landfill and then 1667 truck each day exiting the landfill. That's over 3200 trips on or off the 118 Frwy each and every day. If each truck uses 30 feet of space the length of 3200 trucks lined up end to end is 19 miles or more. It's NOT rocket science.

There will also be vehicles hauling recyclables in and out of the lanfill's accompanying recovery operations. How many of those additional vehicles...it's anyone's guess.

I'm still not really clear on what can be recycled. Most be people have a different idea of which plastic containers, tin foil, plastic wrap ect. Maybe I will take a tour. I will check out the website to see how clear it is. Thanks for reminding us all: Reduce, reuse, recycle!!!!

Morning Kim,
I encourage everyne to take a tour of the dump. You will find the "Host" a very pursuding individual(s). All I ask is that you keep your eyes and ears open. Question everything. Then participate in the task force committee, and ask the same questions, so provide valuable information you may have acquired from your tour. We will not close our eyes to any and all information.

I should have taken the time to look at the website before posting my concerns. It looks as if ventura county can now recycle just about everything plastic unlike the last time I checked. also clean tin foil is ok. I will have a lot more to recycle and will have to request a second can. Thanx for sparking my interest again.

I read WM's plan and it is pretty simple to understand.

According to WM, within the next 3-5 years Ventura County is projected to produce more trash than the current two landfills are presently permitted to receive. The existing landfill is also projected to reach full capacity by the year 2027. Of course this information comes from WM, however I have not seen any independent information that disputes these claims. If someone has some facts to share on this issue that disputes this I'd be happy to consider it.

The existing landfill is presently permitted to receive 3,000 tons per day (tpd) in refuse and another 6,250 tpd in recyclable materials, for a total of 9,250 tpd in waste. WM is proposing to change this ratio to instead allow 6,000 tpd in refuse and 3,250 tpd in recyclable materials, with the total daily limit on waste still remaining at 9,250 tpd.

Based on those figures it does not appear that WM plans on increasing the total tonnage of waste per day that is currently permitted. It is hard to believe that we would have a massive increase in truck volume when the permitted tonnage of the landfill remained the same. Even if the volume of trucks on our local freeway inexplicably doubled it would likely have very little impact on traffic. I am skeptical on this estimates until I see some hard data.

Going back to Gary's post, his estimate of 100,000,000 tons of waste over 30 years is clearly overinflated. Based on his estimate of 1,667 trucks per day carrying 8 tons each that would be the equivalent of 13,336 tpd, which is 44% higher than the proposed maximum permitted limit. That alone reduces his truck convoy from 19 miles to 13 miles. He also does not provide any information supporting his claim that each truck can only carry 8 tons of garbage each. This is important in order to correctly compute the required number of trucks. I have no information on the actual capacity of local garbage trucks but it would help if we had some factual data that could be substantiated, otherwise the 8 ton per truck amount is nothing but speculation.

Based on the obvious calculation errors and other questionable assumptions I think Gary's estimates on garbage truck volume don't pass the initial smell test (pun intended).

Taking it a bit further, even if we were to assume that we are dealing with a 13 mile long convoy of trucks (which I'm inclined to believe is a wild exaggeration), you also need to factor in the total average volume of vehicles that currently travel on the 118 freeway. The 118 freeway has an average daily traffic volume (AADT) of 129,000 vehicles at the Ventura/LA County line. Even if we had 1,156 garbage trucks going round trip each day on our freeway it would represent just 1.8% of all daily freeway traffic in Simi Valley: (1,156 x 2)/129,000 = 1.8%. The actual percentage is even lower when you consider that the AADT average include evenings, weekends and holidays, meaning that daytime M-F traffic is most likely quite a bit higher.

In fact, the 118 freeway currently handles peak hour traffic of 13,100 vehicles per hour at the Ventura/LA County line. Lets have some fun and calculate traffic using Gary's alarmist method and see what we get: (13,100 vehicles per hour, times 30 feet per vehicle, divided by 5,280 feet per mile) Gosh, during peak hours the Simi Freeway presently handles a 74 mile long line of cars every hour!

My point in all of this is to emphasise that we need factual information in order to have an informed opinion on this subject. I'm not interested in spin, just the facts.

You can see the AADT statistics with the link below.

What happens if all these other counties fill up the Simi Landfill and we have to send our trash somewhere really far away? People out of Ventura County need to pay more or build their own landfill.

I find it odd that a normal reaction is to be against a dump expansion until convinced it is a great idea whereas Bubba Kidd seems to be for it until proven it is a menace.

Why are you so inclined to like dump expansions? Shouldn't we try not to take trash from LA ? Seems like LA should take care of their own trash, don't you agree? Otherwise when our dump is filled much earlier because we took trash from LA I am sure we will pay really high prices both financial and environmental to ship our trash even father away.

I didn't say I was for or against expansion of the landfill. All I'm asking for is the facts. There are those who obviously aren't interested in being informed on the topic, they are simply opposed to the project and are willing to invent their own truth to advance their agenda. Again, just give me the facts, not spin, and I'll make up my own mind.

Being against the dump isn't going to work folks....It's already here. We need to see what we can do to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.....(no disrespect to the sow)

This is a crack up! Brian posts the secret WM documents on his blog showing WM's plan to buy everyone in Simi off, who needs to be bought off, and clowns like Bubba go "Duh, give me da facts". Fact is that WM will do whatever they damn well please, there is no one to stop them, so let it go, or move somewhere where the quality of life is more important than a large donation!

How interesting how angry some people get when you simply ask for the facts. I guess informed citizens are harder to manipulate.

What did you think of the plans to influence politicians through donating to charities? Does that sound odd to you Bubba Kidd?

Does that hurt or help their rep with you?

Is there something wrong with local industry giving back to the community? If the situation were reversed you'd be criticizing them for not giving to charity. It is a case of them being damned if they do and damned if they don't. Give them the benefit of the doubt and let them give toward worthy causes. That still doesn't prevent the community from judging the project on its own merit.

HA HA HA!!!!!! Check the documents Bubba Kidd, they gave to the groups in order to shut them up so they could expand the dump without opposition. Of course for right wing wackos like Bubba having people paid to be quiet is just business. Bubba Kidd only likes a fact if it fits what he already believed.

And once again we have skidmark declaring that anybody who doesn't agree with his personal viewpoint is therefore a "right wing wacko". It is amazing how some people have no interest in becoming informed on the issues since it might interfere with their pre-conceived opinions on a subject. I guess a little knowledge is too threatening for some people to handle.

Bubba Skid....Bubba Kidd is right....Most local corporations do give to local charities. I can't think of one that doesn't...Target does, Wal mart does, Almost every local builder does. It is a way to give back to the community. It doesn't go into a campaign war chest...it is given to the Rotary's of the world, and is funneled back to YOUR community. IMy campaign has been given $'s from the Lawrin Co. Shea Homes, Lang Homes, and I have voted in opposition to each of these builders and more. Why? Because I didn't like the development they were proposing for our community.

Only a strong elected official can command contributions from developers and then vote against their projects. The wimps take the money and vote for the project. The strong ones like Williamson can take the contribution and then vote "no". Yet, the developers come back to support her the next round. This is a sign of respect! They know she gives them a fair shake, then votes for what is best for the community. She has always championed safe, sane and smart growth while objecting to the rape of neighborhoods. What more can we ask for? Go Barb.

Did I pay you to say that?

Yep, with carrots.

Once again Bubba Kidd's true colors come through. He cries crocodile tears saying people call names and then he calls names. Your hypocrisy is why everyone laugh's at your comments. Regardless of facts you always take the far right wing party line. You're one of the few people left who still thinks the so-called Iraq war can be won. Why don't you tell it to the families of the 109 american kids killed there last month, for a war that George Tenet said was based on lies.

Yummmmmm, I love those carrots.

Ms. Williamson,
On a different topic. How soon will they be removing the lights at Olsen and the 23? Who in the name of god made that terrible decision to put those lights there?

Machiavelli,Please...refer to me as Barbra
I just got off the phone with the Executive Director of Ventura County Transportation Commission, of which I am Simi Valley's represenative, and as of today, Caltrans will be changing the "mess" at Olsen & the 23 sometime this week. They will have a free flow right turn lane going to Simi Valley just like before. When they laid the lines, the timing loop was out of "wack". Anyway, it will be fixed very soon. Just an FYI the City of Thousand Oaks requested this signal...

I have an idea for the Simi Valley Days theme this year: "Support the Mega Dump - Horray". Let's get the community behind this.

Only if I can be the Grand Marshall....please please...

If Barb is the Grand Marshall, that theme will not work. I suggest a new theme under that circumstance: "Honesty in Government - Horray"

Barbra,
The traffic mess is still there and I don't see them working on it. Traffic was backed up to the Reagan library again this morning and yesterday it was back onto the freeway causing people to slam on their brakes. Why didn't they see what a mess it would be? How much of our tax money did they waste on those lights?

Where is Pete on this light matter? He wants to cut government waste. Come on Pete, just bring a ladder, screwdriver and wire cutters and fix the darn thing. How about assigning a sheriff to direct traffic morning and night? First opportunity to fix government when broken and a very slow response. Definitely not a success story. Machiavelli, you could put down your philosophy book and take a hand to it as well.