This guy is as phoney as a $3 bill. I'd rather buy a used car from Mike Huckabee than listen to the banal platitudes of Mitt Romney.

McCain tore him apart on the question of the use of torture (waterboarding) of enemy combatants. Romney isn't a leader. He's a puppet in a nice suit with hair that looks more and more like Reagan's with each passing day. He's getting desperate in Iowa and starting to air negative ads to squash Huckabee's surge in the polls. It's going to backfire on him and may even drop him to a third place finish there if Iowans sense the dissonance of an attack from such a nice boy like Mitt.

Wow, R.J., what an indictment. Sounds like you dislike Romney because he's too squeaky clean. At least he probably wouldn't have interns servicing him in the Oval Office.

Now, now, Mongo, you don't know what Mitt will do in the oval office with respect to sexual favors from willing adults. What you should know, however, is that Mitt missed the mark on waterboarding as R. J. accurately stated. McCain called a spade a spade. If we torture some of our prisoners, then the enemy is justified in torturing our soldiers when captured. I know that isn't what you want. Additionally, it has been shown that information derived from torture is not necessarily accurate information. Just one more reason for Mitt to have grasped the concept about torture.

Mitt does make claims about making it rich in the business world. Don't forget that Mitt inherited millions from his wealthy parents. As I recall, his Dad was CEO of American Motors. While that doesn't really matter to any great extent, it does shed additional light on the fact that Mitt may be a phony.

Lastly, while Mitt would like us to believe that he is just another loyal believing Christian, while all religions can be considered cults, Mitt's chosen faith has not proven the test of time and relies on a silly premise that his religios leader, a man of many wives, was the reincarnation of God (or something like that). It does sound a little bit silly and cult like to me.

Romney is a flip flopper! He hires illegals and then claims to be against illegals. He supports gay marriage and then does not support it. He supported abortion and then flip flopped. He had Larry Craig working for his campaign and then would not stand by him, or sit by him in a stall for that matter. Romney gives a speech on religion and on what a nice guy he is and the next day he runs the first attack ad of the campaign. Worst judgement of all is that he ask Tony Strickland to work for his campaign!

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not a huge Romney fan. All I'm saying is we should be fair in our criticism of him.

On the waterboarding/torture issue, I actually believe there are some circumstances where aggressive interrogation techniques are called for. I'm not sure if waterboarding, by itself, is the best technique to use in all cases, but I would certainly want to give some discretion to our military/national security experts in the use of this, and other, interrogation techniques when we're dealing with information that could possibly save thousands of innocent lives. Don't forget, we're not dealing with Boy Scouts here. The individuals who would be subject to these types of aggressive measures are terrorists who are looking to do us great harm. We absolutely cannot and should not treat them with kid gloves when they're primary interest is in mass murder of innocent civilians.

So, let me get this straight, CAP-812, you're saying we should hold Romney to different standards because he comes from a wealthy family? Also, you seem to think his religious beliefs should be given much consideration in his qualifications for president. Huh? I thought we had religious freedom in this country? Except if you happen to be Mormon, I guess.

I just heard that Bush has ordered Cheney to be waterboarded until he reveils what actually went on in those secret energy meetings where the heads of big oil companies and Dick wrote a secret policy that is said to have included the Iraq war, drilling in Parks, manipulation of refining and $4+ a gallon gasoline. Sources say Bush is tired of paying the higher gasoline prices his kids are putting on his credit card. Also last week when Bush gave his talk on his mortgage bailout he actually gave out the wrong phone #!

I also agree that extraordinary methods may need to be used under extraordinary circumstances but when it happens those who are involved should be willing to let the justice system decide if they were justified. Without consequences the use of torture easily turns into state terrorism and coercion.

GS, There are much more effective ways to torture and force people to give information than waterboarding! For example, they could be forced to read old posts by Bubba Kidd, they could be forced to listen to Ashcroft sing, they could be forced to go hunting with Dick Cheney, they could be forced to teach George Bush how to read, they could be forced to have dinner with Tony Strickland, they could be forced to use the stall next to Larry Craig, they could be forced to pray with Ted Haggard, they could be forced to be a paige for Tom Foley, worst of all we could make them read a biography of Newt Gingrich!

Another idea is they could be forced to read blog postings by boneheads like "Not Mitt Romney".

Mongo Mongo, Don't blame me for the GOP falling apart, blame yourself and the failed policies you and your ilk have promoted. Is it my fault that Bush has an approval rating of only 29% with 65% dis-approving? Is it my fault that the dems will take the White House and super majorites in the House and Senate in 08? Look in the mirrow Mongo, look in the mirror.

Dream on, Not M.R. I anxiously await the match-up: Hillary vs. Any Republican. The winner: Any Republican (by a landslide) - dragging Congress along by the coattails.

I don't believe Mongo really thinks Fred Thompson or Mitt Romney could beat Hillary. I think only McCain can beat Hillary but luckily for Democrats he will likely be passed over again.

Oh yes I do.

Rudy G can't seem to stay out of trouble. He's got Venezuela's strongman and a Saudi terror financier as clients. He's created a phony myth about saving the free world after 9/11, though his corrupt contractign resulted in the deaths of scores of cops & firemen. he's been living high on the taxpayer's hard earned dimes. Now he's been caught breaking the law by receiving commissions for lobbying for state & federal contracts...without first registering as a lobbyist.

On all these points the G claims its all a mistake or he wont talk about it. THAT's also the sort of president you'd be voting for...one who keeps making mistakes and breaks the law by covering them up.

You hit the nail on the head, GS. Rudy was a good prosecutor, but he doesn't have the values or honesty to be a good President.

Mongo Mongo Mongo, Don't blame me that in the latest national poll Americans now see the economy as the biggest problem facing America. That means they see the GOP economic policy as a failure. Mongo, "It's the economy stupid!"

NMR, I sincerely beg to differ. "It's illegal immigration, bone brain!"

Mongo,

If you are anxiously wanting a Hillary vs. Any Republican matchup you are scared, the proper word to use would be EAGER

Mongo's words..."Dream on, Not M.R. I anxiously await the match-up: Hillary vs. Any Republican.

I support McCain, Pres. and Edwards Vice Pres. ticketbut then again I am an idealist.

Waterboarding in prohibited in the military but the intelligence community has different rules. I wouldn't want it used except in extraordinary circumstance. It is generally a bad thing except when it is necessary to prevent something extraordinary and much worse. I believe Romney's main point was that it wasn't the good for the country to be discussing it in a political campaign. But of course that is too late as soon as someone does just that. Once politicians make it open to such widespread public exposure for political gain, its value for extraordinary circumstance probably becomes overshadowed by the negative repercussions with our enemy's ability to exploit it.

I find all these candidate flawed and all the stars line up for the Democrats except possibly the illegal immigration issue. So if you want to keep Democrats from power and prevent the amnesty that would certainly result, then you have to ask yourself who could do that.

The use of torture, in secret, SHOULD be a political issue. The Constitution forbids it and those officials using it are violating their oath of office. They should face the consequences.

As for illegal immigrants, I believe its the GOP, following Bush's lead, that's been pushing for amnesty.

Mongo Mongo Mongo, It was not my poll, it was a national poll that showed illegal immigration is not the number one problem, it is the economy. A majority of Americans also support Bush's plan to give a path to citizenship. I think this is a positive sign that taking a page out of Hitler's playbook to scapegoat a certain class of people will not be working for the GOP, so they better start talking about what really matters to Americans.

Love Child, you're definitely from the Woodstock era if you believe a McCain/Edwards ticket is a possibilty. Oh, and thanks for correcting my word usage ("eager" vs. "anxious"). You're absolutely correct. I feel like George Bush being scolded by ex-schoolteacher Laura for his butchering of the English language.

I have a question for Jeff. Not do you think we should waterboard or not, but do you think it meets the legal definition of torture?

No, waterboarding does not meet the legal definition of torture. Running water up some terrorist's nose to make him feel like he's drowning is hunky dory with me, if it results in getting vital information that may save many lives.

Hey Mongo--

I know you lack any critical ability to question King George, so show us the evidence of what you are saying:

How many lives have been saved as a result of water boarding?

Is it resulting in vital information being received?

Hunky Dory: It's fascist for nice.

I don't think MF answered the first question. He said waterboarding isn't torture because it works. MF, can't it both be torture and effective? Regardless of the alleged effectiveness, is it torture?

Do you think if it works we should torture people? I was always taught that America stood up for ideals and was willing to fight for them. i think it is clear some non-vets like Mittens Romney don't understand wars aren't run by soundbites.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Waterboarding is not torture. It is a means to a justifiable end. Therefore, it is not torture. Stop treating terrorists with kid gloves. They perceive this as weakness and will only hit us harder as a result. You have to understand the Islamo-Fascist mentality.

Hey Flamo---

You didn't answer my questions. How many lives have been saved? What "vital information" has been received? You sound like the left with your faith in government bureaucrats.

"So-Called Ron Paul Revolution", you never answered my question, which is: When are the ACLU and liberal Democrats going to wake up and smell the coffee? We are not dealing with Girl Scouts here.

Mongo, would you have any problem with seeing your Mother or Father Waterboarded if the police thought they had information they needed?

Before anyone answers, claiming the above post is too far-fetched, attorneys for the DOJ replied to a federal judge in October 2004 that the Patriot Act gives the government the right to arrest and hold anyone incommunicado, indefinitely. When posing the hypothetical case of someone's gandma who donated to a children's overseas charity in which some of that charities funds ultimately found their way to a suspected terrorist organization, the judge asked if she could be arrested secretly, held indefinitely and interrogated without access to an attorney, the DOJ attorneys said YES, she could! Even if she had no idea of where that money ultimately ended up? YES!

Seems a pretty scary trade off for that $300 tax rebate everyone got back in 2000, doesn't it? Anyone wanna do a do-over?

That's what I love about these liberal know-nothings! They conjure up all these far-fetched scenarios about grandma getting tortured and purport it to be fact. Get a friggin' life, would you?

Waterboarding and other "advanced interrogation techniques" are used on terrorists and those who seek to do us harm, not your Uncle Charlie. So, stop the baseless scare tactics and apply some facts and knowledge to your arguments instead of wild theories from the depths of the friggin' Twilight Zone!!!

How do you know that "Waterboarding and other "advanced interrogation techniques" are used on terrorists and those who seek to do us harm, not your Uncle Charlie."? Seems that that's the core of the problem with an administration who conducts torture in secret: that we just don't know who they're torturing nor for what reasons.

gs, again, these techniques are designed to get information from people that are "in the know" and, in fact, have the level of sophistication and involvement that would place them in a position where they would be able to offer vital information that would help our Homeland Security, intelligence, and military officials take preventive measures that could possibly save lives. These are individuals that are involved in plotting terrorist acts, not just "terrorist sympathizers" or those that simply provide funding to terrorist organizations or causes. I know this because my uncle actually works for the Department of Homeland Security and is involved in making these kinds of judgments.

That would, by definition, exclude your Uncle Charlie and your Aunt May.

I am sorry but Mongo your lack of logic is almost painful. You actually typed this sentence:

"It is a means to a justifiable end. Therefore, it is not torture."

Cutting off Osama Bin Laden's balls might get some answers, and it could be justified, but it would be torture.

Just because it works doesn't mean it isn't torture.

Something can be torture and effective. What did you think the word meant? Fun and games that reveal nothing?

So again, is torture sometimes justified? You seem to say yes.

Would water boarding a captured American soldier be torture?

I think it would be.

Don't get me wrong, Mongo. I agree that there are extraordinary circumstances that would warrant the use of torture but this administration can't seem to tell the difference between extraordinary and mundane. Two cases in point: the Miami 7, an incompetent street gang who tried to scam an FBI provocateur into giving them money and" a Seattle attorney who has a large arab-speaking client list and who was identified through "fingerprints" to be involved in the Madrid train bombing. In each case the govt's case rested on secret indictments, secret evidence, anonymous witnesses and overzealousness by govt agents and/or provocateurs. Each case failed, not because these cases were adjudicated openly and fairly but because so much attention was placed on them that the DOJ's methods were exposed for all to see.

If we allow it to be used freely and without consequence torture will quickly become a threat to all of us.

Interesting story in the LA Times today on Romney. It said Mormon's in California are supporting Romney simply because he is a Mormon. If that is the case, is it okay to not support Romney simply because he is a Mormon?

gs, I couldn't disagree with you more on your point about torture being a threat to all our individual freedoms. The two cases you mentioned had nothing to do with torture, so you're comparing apples to oranges here. The case of the Seattle attorney was clearly a mistake by the FBI who fingered him wrongly as being involved in the Madrid train bombing. They apologized profusely to both he and his family for wrongly accusing him in this case.

But, again, "advanced interrogation techniques", such as water boarding (which is not torture), are extremely valuable to our national security interests and will continue to be used, when appropriate, to garner information on those who seek to cause mass death and destruction in our country and throughout the world. The end absolutely justifies the means in cases where water boarding and other techniques are used to get information that could save countless innocent lives from being lost here and abroad. This is an undeniable fact and has been proven time and time again. The FBI , the CIA, the National Security Council (NSC), the State Department, and the Defense Department keep collective statistics on the effectiveness of these techniques. Granted, many of these statistics are classified information, so as not to tip our hand to those that would use it against us.

Those two cases have plenty to do with the present administration's embracing of torture because they clearly show that every innocent American citizen is also subject to torture under the twisted sense of legal logic adopted by the White House. Today Bush's DOJ may or may not step over the line but they claim they are within their rights tp do so. If that stands as precedent then tomorrow you may have an out-of-control Democrat taking that next step of rounding up and using those same tools against those of which they feel need to be made examples.

As a very famous English songwriter (Ray Davies of the Kinks) once said - "Paranoia may detroy ya!"