Follow Up from a Star reporter: Strickland aide put on leave after fracas at fundraising event

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( What we were missing by attending the protest. What does the NBA and politics have in common? People shove each other and then a debate breaks out about it. Meanwhile the game continues.)

In an effort to minimize my comments I will allow the article to speak for itself. I want to back up the process by which it was written but as I have said in the past I did not witness the man being knocked to the ground and I didn't see Audra's Chief of Staff push him. I did see him stand in front of the path of people walking up the side walk but I don't know what he said as I was too far back to hear it.

I will say that The Star and reporter Teresa Rochester interviewed many people over the last couple of days to make sure the story was accurate. Reading the article you will see that The Star interviewed the key individuals directly.

Protest organizer Louis Pandolfi notified in advance the media and the police about the protest. Although the police on duty didn't know about it The Star staff including Teresa Rochester to cover the event.

Being that there was about 50 partisans on each side their recollections wouldn't be fair to include. But Teresa Rochester was on scene and had many pictures taken as the events described took place. The Star did not publish all of the pictures.

I know that people will quibble with her story but she is part of the few eyewitnesses to the event that wasn't on a side protesting. Another would be The Star photographer.

I have heard a prominent Democrat in the past complain about her being too favorable to those in power ( Republicans ) and that she was too cautious in her writing.

I am sure people will be arguing about this article too.

Here are some more of my photos from the event:

Ashes.jpg

and...

Ashes2.jpg

If someone that has Audra Strickland's released letter sends it to me I will post it so you can read it for yourself.

Strickland aide put on leave after fracas at fundraising event

By Teresa Rochester
Friday, June 20, 2008

Assemblywoman Audra Strickland placed a top aide on leave Thursday following his involvement earlier this week in altercations during a demonstration outside a fundraiser for her husband, state Senate candidate Tony Strickland.

Audra Strickland, R-Moorpark, announced she was placing Joel Angeles, her chief of staff, on "a one-month leave of absence without pay for what I view as a show of poor judgment," according to a written statement issued by her office.

On Tuesday, Angeles took the day off from his job as her chief of staff job to join her husband's campaign supporters outside the Hyatt Westlake Plaza hotel in Thousand Oaks. Former presidential candidate Mitt Romney appeared there Tuesday night to stump for Tony Strickland, who is locked in a critical battle for the 19th District Senate seat.

Tony Strickland's supporters gathered outside the hotel Tuesday afternoon to counter a planned protest by supporters of his Democratic rival, Hannah-Beth Jackson.

As Angeles attempted to block the second group of protesters from marching up the sidewalk toward his candidate's supporters, the verbal sparring between Angeles and the protesters escalated into shoving. Police were summoned and took a report of the incident but made no arrests.

Audra Strickland noted in her statement that "most accounts show that Hannah-Beth Jackson's protesters were the aggressors."

"Frankly, it is very difficult for me since I was not there," Strickland said in an interview Thursday morning. "I've talked to people who were there. I talked to people who were intimidated. They were concerned for their safety."

Couterprotesters claim Angeles was the one who instigated the physical contact.

Strickland's supporters had gathered at a driveway leading to the hotel. Jennifer McCarthy, a long-time Tony Strickland supporter, was among them with her daughter and nephew. After waving signs and flags for about an hour and a half, McCarthy saw knots of people with Obama '08 and anti-Strickland signs walk back and forth, she said.

A Tony Strickland supporter made a remark to an Obama supporter, who responded angrily, she said.

The counterprotesters ended up gathering in front of a gas station on the southeast corner of Westlake Boulevard and Townsgate Road. Angeles stood on the opposite corner holding an anti-Jackson sign.

Louis Pandolfi, the Simi Valley resident who organized the protest against Tony Strickland, described what transpired as "horrible." At the front of a group of about 50 people, including one dressed as a cigarette in protest of campaign contributions from tobacco companies, Pandolfi said he heard Angeles tell them not to step on the curb.

Angeles denied saying that.

"My primary concern throughout the whole thing was the safety of all involved," Angeles said in an interview Wednesday.

"My attempt was to talk to someone who was leading the group and say, Let's keep our groups separated 10 to 20 feet apart.' There was a decision on their part to just move ahead."

As the group moved past Angeles, he ran in front of them, in what appeared to be an effort to stop their movement. Pandolfi said he was pushed.

Jack Phillips, a Vietnam veteran, retired minister and head of the Camarillo Democratic Club was elbowed to the ground by Angeles, in front of news reporters. His left arm was injured.

"He was moving back and forth to block people, and he bumped me," Phillips, 67, said. "All of a sudden, I found myself on the ground looking for my hearing aid."

Phillips said when he got up, he confronted Angeles. The two traded heated insults with their faces inches apart. Phillips said he put his finger into Angeles' chin.

Angeles said Phillips had "given me an upper cut to the chin."

151 Comments

Audra should fire him. Unpaid leave of absence is a joke. Everyone knows this. Get rid of him - he is a permanent liability now.

But then watch and see if Tony's senate campaign picks up Joel Angeles and just pays him with donor dollars instead of taxpayer dollars.

The VCRCC hired Strickland staffer Chris Wangsaporn as an "independent contractor Executive Director" to take care of ALL the Republicans in Ventura County - at the same time he was on Strickland's payroll.

Which staffer was it that was living at Strickland's home and paying them rent with the taxpayer dollars he was receiving working for a Strickland?

Well Joel got $15K from Audra and $10K from Tony last year for "campaign consultation". And Darrin M. Henry's company (DMH) has received over $36K in campaign consultant contributions from Audra's campaign. Darrin also works from Audra. Should state employees also get paid to work on campaigns? Is this pretty standard? If so, I am in the wrong business!!

Taxpayers keep sending Audra Strickland back which must mean not that many taxpayers are upset over her office's services.

I think the punishment fits the crime in this case. He was clearly over the top in his behavior at the rally, but I'm sure he wasn't the only one who was pushing and shoving.

It sounded like a very chaotic situation and when people are crowding you, pushing up against you, shouting in your face, waving signs up in your face, etc., it is a natural reaction to swing your arms to free yourself and try and break loose of the situation.

That's the way I heard it described by someone who was watching across the street. I don't think Joel intentionally flung the 67-year-old minister to the ground either, as some have described it. When you're older and more frail, it doesn't take much of a push to knock you down.

Jack Phillips, a Vietnam veteran, retired minister and head of the Camarillo Democratic Club was elbowed to the ground by Angeles, in front of news reporters. His left arm was injured.

"He was moving back and forth to block people, and he bumped me," Phillips, 67, said. "All of a sudden, I found myself on the ground looking for my hearing aid."

He did this with multiple reporters watching. Who do you believe? The reporters or any protesters?

He's a former Marine, Mongo, and not small in stature. If you look in the photo the Star published, he is in the middle of the photo in a blue plaid shirt. It took a lot to knock him down. This happened right in front of me. He is also a retired Episcopalian minister.

There was nobody across the street on the very busy, wide Westlake Blvd. to see this. It happened in the middle of a crowd of people and all views from "across the street" were blocked.

Your source is not being honest.

There were only three people on the curb when we approached and we had every right to gather on the open stretch of sidewalk just past them. Angeles just didn't want us there and tried to stop us.

You forgot to include the rest on the statement made by Phillips:

"Phillips said when he got up, he confronted Angeles. The two traded heated insults with their faces inches apart. Phillips said he put his finger into Angeles' chin."

Phillips has been portrayed by several bloggers as a frail senior citizen participating in a peaceful protest who was assaulted and flung to the ground by Angeles. But by his own admission he states that he was in Angeles' face hurling insults and also committed battery by making physical contact with Angeles during the altercation. That doesn't support the claims by various individuals of him being an innocent victim. That also explains why the police were reluctant to arrest Angeles, since it is clear that individuals on both sides were behaving badly.

I'm still waiting for someone to post the full video so we can see some actual supporting evidence. Otherwise this appears to be just a case of a few hothead partisans on both sides pushing and shoving. Stickland was justified in suspending Angeles for showing poor judgment since he, of all people, should have stayed away from any direct confrontation with the HBJ protesters. Regardless of how it started, he should have not been in the middle of it. But I'm inclined to believe that both sides were at fault here.

I think Jack should have stayed down, too, but he got back up and was angry at being hurt. What would you do if somebody knocked you down and hurt you, Bubba?

This is what should have happened: Angeles and his two guys should have stayed on the corner and let us pass by into the wide open space just past him. All would have been fine. Instead he confronted us, yelled threatening remarks and ran through us knocking folks down.

After all this happened, I hung way back by myself and waited for a friend to come. She is with an anti-tobacco program and brought her two little kids. I talked to Ferial Masry for quite awhile, too. She told me one of the Strickland people called her a "terrorist." She was carrying a sign that said "Vote for Peace."

Oh please! Marie said,..he confronted us, yelled threatening remarks and ran through us knocking folks down." I have known Mr. Angeles for more than ten years and he has never been violent nor malicious in any way.
Isn't it time to get back to the issues or does Hannah-Beth need u to keep this story going so she can avoid scrutiny of her own campaign?

Straight from the story by the eyewitness reporter:

"As the group moved past Angeles, he ran in front of them, in what appeared to be an effort to stop their movement."

An altercation between opposing protesters!!! What is this world coming to?? When you attend a protest you should expect to get protested right back at ya. Usually there's some pushing and shoving and no one ever admits they were wrong and neither side makes any points.

In this case, however, Team Strickland gave the opposition a gift when Audra's C-of-S made the boneheaded decision to join the action. STUPID! And if Audra didn't warn her staff to stay out of the action beforehand....REALLY STUPID! The blame goes to Angeles. The responsibility rests with Audra.

Give back the money!

It is clear Mrs. Strickland knew her staff member was in the wrong. That makes all of the defenses of him that he was completly innocent no longer logical.

It isn't disputed that after getting pushed down Mr. Phillips was angry and lashed out. The question was who started it and the witnesses say it was Mrs. Strickland's staff member. She made a wise choice to admit fault and try to move on in the campaign. That shows maturity and a focus on the issues that matter most.

The people that are dragging it out are those that won't admit that the Strickland campaign did anything wrong.

Marie, if I were knocked to the ground I would probably be upset too. But the smart thing for Jack to have done would be nothing. It would have made him the better man and would have set an example for others, especially for the children who were present. Unfortunately, once you respond in kind then you are just as guilty. If someone punches me I can make a good argument to the police that I want that person arrested. But if I turn around and punch them back then I have no case. At that point it becomes irrelevant who started it.

Again, this was a few hotheads on both sides that let things get out of control. It would have been a better idea to keep both groups separated since what happened was predictable.

Time to learn from the mistakes that were made and move on.

Marie is 100% correct. I was right there behind the whole altercation. All we tried to do was go through their crowd to get to the other side of their group. We were told by a very irate Mr. Angeles that we could not pass. It is a public sidewalk, so we continued forward. Next thing I know he is shoving Mr. Phillips off of the sidewalk. I thought at first that they were just kidding around until Mr. Phillips hit the ground. We did nothing to provoke anyone other than try to pass by their group. The whole event was surreal. If you were not there to witness anything, why do you feel it correct to comment or criticize?

Trying to move a protest group through the middle of an opposing protest group is just asking for trouble. It would have been smarter to keep on opposite sides of the street to insure that things remained peaceful. Leading your group through the middle of a hostile group contributed to the outcome and wasn't very smart. It doesn't justify the behavior by certain individuals, but anyone could have predicted the outcome. Next time stay on your side of the street, otherwise it makes it look like you are trying to provoke an altercation.

This wasn't two groups moving past each other in mass, this was a Strickland supporter claiming the whole sidewalk. The two sides should be apart but a government paid staff member shouldn't get to declare his group reserves the right to empty sidewalks.

Bubba, this was 30-40 people moving past THREE people to an open spot far from both opposition groups.

We should have been allowed to pass peacefully.

You know I respect you, Bubba, but If you weren't there, you don't really know what happened, do you? Jack didn't do anything beyond pointing his finger at Angeles.

Marie & (and now Lisa), I don't think we have heard your account of the situation enough times. Can you go through it again?

Audra Strickland and Tony Strickland should both be facing a criminal investigation for conspiracy to commit an assualt! If they sent their thug Angeles out to beat up on an elderly man who was using his protected freedom of speech then that would seem to be a conspiracy. This really shows why the Strickland's should be kicked out of office, they are both disgraces and both only seem to care about keeping their place at the taxpayer trough and they not only do not care about their constituients, their chief of staff physically roughed up one of their constituients! Shameful!

The Star has the video of the entire incident. So why haven't they put the video up? It seems odd that it hasn't been done already - especially since they post video all the time, and it isn't a technical challenge. We just heard that Strickland people (not sure yet who) put pressure on the Star not to post the video, and that's why it hasn't been posted.

I also heard from people that Strickland's team was taping. But they haven't shown their video to anyone as far as I know. I think it is because they didn't get the point of conflict on tape.

I don't know The Star has it anything besides more pictures.

The police did take a video from a protester but I don't think it has much on it. See my original post on the topic.

This is a great distraction from the real issues of the campaign that we should be discussing. This ranks right up there with Obama not wearing a flag pin.

Who cares?!?! Enough already with the "he said, she said." It's over. Angeles has been put in the penalty box. Shall we move on?

OK back to the real issue, Stricklands take money from alcohol, gambling and tobacco. In church on Sunday they ask for forgivness and at work on Monday they ask for payola. Scumbags.

Mongo,

Maybe we can discuss the $22K Hannah-Beth Jackson received from the Chumash Casino folks in her last run for the Assembly.

This is another micro issue, with a handful of people are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. The story changes depending on who you ask and there is no hard evidence to prove who is telling the truth. My guess is that both sides are exaggerating what really happened.

It is all very childish and only makes both sides look bad. Besides, this election is about the candidates and their positions on the issues. Neither candidate was personally involved or sanctioned the altercation, and neither can control a small group of yahoos who choose to spend their time on a sidewalk screaming at each other.

I didn't have to be there to know that this whole sorry episode didn't have to occur if either side decided to exercise some self-restraint. Besides, none of this ridiculous behavior will persuade undecided voters. If anything it will just turn them off to both candidates. Time for everyone to move on.

Flap-good question. I'm sure they will try to double talk their way out of that one...
Dig your blog and appreciate your research.

Flap & Stand-Up, shall we pass this question Marie's way? I think she got a bit flustered with all the reverse-bagging on her gal (HBJ).

I'm sure she'll be back though...

If you are Strickland supporters, you do not want to even open up the discussion to gaming tribe contributions. The IEC contributions are/were insane.

Flap, I don't see any person of color in your photos yet there was a Strickland supporter, possibly Joel Angeles, that complained about being called a "N------" by more than one HB person. This is a very serious accusation. Obviously Joel isn't black but I don't see any who is. Did Joel Angeles also use hate speech in order to incite people?

@ Mongo and Stand-up,

I am positive Hannah-Beth spent some of my hard earned money in her 2000 campaign donated to her from the Chumash Casino. Love that place.

I want to hear from Marie or the others whether HBJ will reject their contributions this election cycle.

And, if so, why?

(Oh and Marie, tell the webmasters at the VC Star that your blog RSS feed is messed up.)

@ R U Crazy

I didn't hear anything about the N-word at the protest but did talk to Ferial Masry about someone calling her a terrorist.

She was in a quandry as to what to do and decided to just leave.

Flap, I don't see any person of color in your photos yet there was a Strickland supporter, possibly Joel Angeles, that complained about being called a "N------" by more than one HB person. This is a very serious accusation. Obviously Joel isn't black but I don't see any who is. Did Joel Angeles also use hate speech in order to incite people?

@ R U Crazy

I didn't hear anything about the N-word at the protest but did talk to Ferial Masry about someone calling her a terrorist.

She was in a quandry as to what to do and decided to just leave.

@ R U Crazy

I didn't hear anything about the N-word at the protest but did talk to Ferial Masry about someone calling her a terrorist.

She was in a quandry as to what to do and decided to just leave.

Brian,

Sorry about the multiple posts but something is amiss with your typepad tonight.

Read the comments on the original news article yesterday - the is a guy called ACU3 or something like that who claimed he was called "N______" several times and then follow the rest of the comments. There was a Nick on this blog who posted the night before that a guy wearing a brown shirt accused him of calling him a "N". Joel was wearing a brown shirt.

Do you remember anyone of color at the rally? So far, everyone I have asked is drawing a blank - which means the word was used to incite people.

This is another micro issue, with a handful of people are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. The story changes depending on who you ask and there is no hard evidence to prove who is telling the truth. My guess is that both sides are exaggerating what really happened.

It is all very childish and only makes both sides look bad. Besides, this election is about the candidates and their positions on the issues. Neither candidate was personally involved or sanctioned the altercation, and neither can control a small group of yahoos who choose to spend their time on a sidewalk screaming at each other.

I didn't have to be there to know that this whole sorry episode didn't have to occur if either side decided to exercise some self-restraint. Besides, none of this ridiculous behavior will persuade undecided voters. If anything it will just turn them off to both candidates. Time for everyone to move on.

Team 2006, Sponsored by California Sovereign Indian Nations (ID #1291537)

Team 2006 participated in the 2006 general elections by supporting eight legislative
candidates (five Republicans and three Democrats) and former Assemblyman Tony Strickland, the Republican nominee for Controller. The total spent on “independent expenditures� was $3,093,391, with $960,000 spent for Strickland

Contributors to Team 2006 included Sycuan Band of the Kumeyaay Nation, Agua Caliente Band of Cahuilla Indians and Pechanga Band of Luiseno Indians.

-- California Fair Political Practices Commission

@ Indian Money

Got a link? or a url reference.

@ R U Crazy

I didn't notice one way or another. Brian was there with me maybe he remembers.

@ Indian Money

Got a link? or a url reference.

@ R U Crazy

I didn't notice one way or another. Brian was there with me maybe he remembers.

http://www.fppc.ca.gov/ie/IEReport2.pdf

Independent Expenditures: The Giant Gorilla in Campaign Finance, June 2008

Bubba "Blowhard" Kid,
This is not a micro issue. This Republican Strickland douchebag has no right to prevent people from legally protesting.

Republicans don't get any worse than the VCRCC Republican slime terrorising Ventura County.

Audra Strickland got quite a bit of money as well - over $100K. Click on the name.

Bubba Kidd- you can post a million times on a million threads but what Joel Angeles did is no micro issue.

Sorry about the multiple posts. Sometimes funny things happen when I use my handhbeld to post.

The anti-Strickland folks are coming off as desperate by trying to escalate this into some sort of issue involving civil rights, ADA, child abuse, elderly abuse, and racism. If Tony Strickland farted in public you would accuse him of destroying the environment by polluting the air that children breathe. Give it a rest already. All you are doing at this point is whipping yourselves into a hysteria while turning off potential voters.

Certainly Enough Already doesn't rely on her "known him for a long time" comment to defend someone who lost control at a rally and became too aggressive for his or anyone's good. Get with it!
These rallys can get emotional and aggressive and bring out covert tendencies toward violence. I have been involved in demonstrations for many years, from San Francisco to Los Angeles. During the Cesar era, many of us were pummeled by bullies like Angeles, some of them, police who provoked 10 year old kids by poking them with their batons just to have reason to abuse them. People like Angeles are who construe Strickland supporters. They are self-indulging, arrogants who feel they are favored Americans. It is unusual to find a black or Hispanic supporter among them for two main reasons: They do not fit the standards of a Stricklland following and they have been personally offended by the Strickland-Gallegly agenda.

Joel might be Filopina if it makes a difference. I'm concerned about the hate speech. The paper can track the comments back to verify if so inclined.

Bubba, I'm moving on myself. I am pleased that the Star reported what I indeed witnessed, although I very much dispute Audra's "statement" and all quotes from Angeles. Brian and I were both out there. You should know by now that neither one of us makes things up.

I received word yesterday that Jack Phillips went to the doctor and has a torn rotator cuff. He is unable to lift his arm and will spend weeks in physical therapy.

I'm going to take a blog break for awhile and spend time with my family. You folks should get out and enjoy the sunshine, too.

@ Indian Money

Thanks for the link to the 89 page FPPC report.

I agree there is alot of money in elections. But, there always has been.

The alternative is public financing of elections which the public has rejected.

The Democrats take as much or more money from the special interests as the Republicans. This is just a fact of life.

Now, how HBJ demoagogues the issue that is another story.

@ Nobody

>This Republican Strickland douchebag has no right to prevent people from legally protesting.

Certainly that was not the case. I was there.

@Marie

So, is Jack Phillips going to sue Joe Angeles? And, why didn't he press charges at the site?

Flap, you were the one who asked about the $22K that HBJ received. How about you and Mongo discuss the $1 million plus the Stricklands received during their last run. Or is this just a fact of life?


By Flap on June 20, 2008 7:08 PM
Mongo,

Maybe we can discuss the $22K Hannah-Beth Jackson received from the Chumash Casino folks in her last run for the Assembly.

If Mr. Phillips decides to sue, I imagine it takes a while to make it happen. Not sure if he can supeona the reporter and/or the photograper. What a nightmare this has turned into - talk about costing a lot of taxpayer dollars. I'm sure there is more than one salivating attorney right now.

LOL Katie What cost to the taxpayers? If anything with Joel being on leave it saves the taxpayers money...duh!

Joel Angeles needs to be fired. The only two possibilities for him making a fool out of himself while his bosses were inside include:

-the Stricklands knew about him being there and therefore approved his intention and behavior. Clearly poor judgment on the part if the Stricklands, not to mention a clear demonstration of their lack of values and respect for citizens' rights.

-the Stricklands have an out of control employee that displays difficulty managing his behavior and needs to be fired immediately.

Put on leave for a month just doesn't seem to quite cut it. Where will the Stricklands next unleash Angeles?

I believe she is referring to the potential million(s) dollar lawsuit against Angeles and the Strickland(s).

Marie, I don't doubt that you are sincere in your belief of what happened. But there were many eye witnesses to the incident and, based on the article in the Star, multiple versions of what happened. While Brian was there he acknowledges that he did not personally witness the incident. Anyone who is familiar with courtroom testimony or statements made by witnesses also knows that individual recollections of events can, and often are wildly inaccurate and inconsistent. Our memories are imperfect and often shaped significantly by our own biases and perspectives. There are clearly other witness who did not see the incident the same way as you did. Perhaps some individuals are lying, or maybe all are telling the truth, depending on their own vantage point.

There have been lots of studies on this type of phenomenon. Typically this is done by creating a mock incident, such as a robbery. Then eyewitnesses are interviewed, and the result is usually wildly different recollections of the series of events.

Without an actual video tape of this incident there is no way to know for sure what really happened. So I am not saying that you are lying, I'm just stating that there are multiple versions of the event and yours is just one. Your statement is from your perspective only. What we do know for sure is that there were tempers flaring on both sides, with name-calling and pushing and shoving. In all likelihood both sides are at fault to some degree.

It is also interesting to see how the statements of various bloggers have evolved over the past few days. Now it has progressed from a simple sidewalk altercation into an incident that involes racist hate speech and ADA violations. I'm sure this would be a great case study in false memories if a video tape were to surface.

Bubba Kidd,
G.W. Bush executed hundreds in not thousands of people with much much less evidence than we have in this incidence.

All that typing you did above was a waste of time. The jury is going to love Teresa Rochester. Face it Bubba you guys are busted. The best thing to do "right now" is to settle. The longer it goes on the worse it will get for Greg Totten and Mr. Angeles's homeowners insurance company.


I trust the multiple reporters who are backing up what Marie saw.

I feel for both Philips and Angeles. One injured physically and the other likely disabled in his political career. The truth of the matter will be known eventually.

What is known is that Angeles should not have been present on that sidewalk. Sure, he's a private citizen as well as Audra's C-of-S but under those circumstances he can't be both. Audra should have laid down the law about her staff getting involved in confrontations with voters. If she did, then Angeles has to go. If she didn't, then she needs to take responsibility and apologize.

Quit spinning BK. The police have a video, the photographer has more photos, there are multiple people who saw Angeles be agressive, there is a picture of him holding a sign, etc. It is a great case in ruining a political career(s). You aren't helping him at all by contributing to the subject and prolonging the discussion.

The Hannah-Beth Jackson supporters are lucky there were multiple reporters there to back up their story. Without them the spinning wouldn't stop and there would be no clarity at all for people that didn't attend.

The story would be over since Strickland apologized but every post by a Strickland supporter denying any guilt promotes more arguing and a continuing of the story.

I didn't read every comment. Did Bubba Kidd agree that a Chief of Staff shouldn't have been out there waving a sign and arguing with protesters?

Every time Marie goes on ad nauseum, I have thought the very same thing . . eye witness accounts are so unreliable. She thinks if she says it enough times it will make it so. Can u tell us one more time Marie, how it went down?

By the time any lawsuit against Joe Angeles gets through discovery both Audra and Tony Strickland will have been in office for months.

This case is going nowhere. But, they may try.

Good luck in Ventura County.

@Indian $$$ I haven't heard from the HBK supporters about her talking money from the Chumash Casino folks.

As far as Tony is concerned running for a statewide office requires the big bucks and the Indian tries certainly have it.

It is disclosed, so what?

@ Bing kind

Angeles was there on his day off.

He probably shouldn't have been there for appearances sake but certain had a right to demonstrate for Tony.

Do you think he had no right to be there?

Hey Flap, I try to access your blog but it isn't working right for me. I used to be able to get on it - you supported Rudy right?

@ Katie

Yep, Rudy supporter.

Blog is working fine. Over 100 folks on it now.

The address (shameless plug) is obtained by clicking my name.

Hey "BK is so right," how about 30 eyewitness accounts and two of those are a newspaper reporter and photographer? Is that is enough for you? We'll get them all to log on here and tell you some more.

I have deleted about 25 comments that either bring up things ways over the line or details that are explosive but that I have no evidence at all for.

If you ever see something truly ugly on this blog please drop me an email that includes the comment so I can search for it and delete it.

When I delete comments I don't normally say who requested it. So, if you work for a campaign you can protect the privacy of your volunteers or not comment on this blog and get things removed if they go overboard in their posts.

Consider it your online community and help me out.

Thanks,

Brian


The only spin going on around here is from the anti-Strickland folks. This claim that a newspaper reporter and photographer have backed up your side of the story is false. The newspaper story was neutral and provided quotes from both sides about the incident. There are numerous allegations, but in each case it is presented as quoted statements from various individuals involved. Nowhere in the article does the reporter attempt to validate or refute any of the various statements.

There have also been claims that the accusations by the HBJ group have been verified by videotape and pictures of the incident. Yet these pictures and videos have not been posted or otherwise been made available for review, if they even exist at all. I also haven't seen any other independent supporting evidence, such as a police report. Again, yet another unsupported claim.

And then we have the same folks trying to escalate the altercation into some sort of racist hate speech incident and ADA violation. Talk about spin!

This all seems to fall under the typical liberal strategy that repeating something enough times makes it true.

Since you guys are so convinced of your own version of events how about sharing those conclusive photographs and videos that you keep claiming exist. I'll be waiting...

Flap, maybe its because I have the cookie function shut off but I cannot access your blog (and yes I know your name is linked. I was a Rudy supporter as well and would go to your blog when he was still in the race.

Bubba Kidd - stop with the spin. The incidident is embarassing to all Republicans. The last thing any constituent needs to see is a picture of his or her assembly person's chief of staff in the front section of the paper holding a sign calling someone a hypocrite. Just leave the subject alone because all you are doing is fanning the flames.

The story in the star was pretty clear.

"Jack Phillips, a Vietnam veteran, retired minister and head of the Camarillo Democratic Club was elbowed to the ground by Angeles, IN FRONT OF NEWS REPORTERS. His left arm was injured."

No spin at all, just an exact quote.

Everyone that was at the scene, except people there to support Strickland, agree on that basic fact.

Maybe Bubba Kidd should talk to the newspaper reporter, Theresa Rochester herself and find out what she saw. Then Bubba should talk to the photographer, Dana Bowler and ask her, too.

Better yet, ask Dana if you can see all her photos.

But Bubba isn't interested in the truth. Bubba's here to spin.

The story made google news twice if you type in tobacco protest. This story isn't going away until another "fracas" between the campaigns happens.

Tussle uncalled for'

I was one of the 50 people outside the Hyatt Westlake on Tuesday to protest tobacco money being given to Tony Strickland.

We had arrived at what I thought a peaceful demonstration only to find a very angry man blocking our way. When we attempted to cross the street, he threw himself in front of us. It escalated into one of our peaceful protesters being thrown to the ground by somebody we later learned was Audra Strickland's chief of staff, Joel Angeles. The older man was just walking when this happened.

I asked: "What are you doing? Stop it." Then he started to argue, and I realized there was no rationalizing with him. Our group called the police.

I was afraid to keep walking. I was afraid of being the next victim. I will never forget it. We had a right to be there, and this was really uncalled for.

— Lisa Kuklenski, Ventura

Notice how the people backing up the newspaper account put their real names out there but those backing Strickland do not?

Notice how the Strickland haters cherry-pick their information. The article provides statements from both sides. It also includes statements from HBJ protesters who admit that they also engaged in verbal sparring and pushing and shoving. The so-called elderly minister admits that he got into a heated exchange with Angeles just inches from his face and committed battery by making physical contact with him during the argument. All that is not in dispute and is in black and white in the article. Yet repeatedly the HBJ apologists lift certain quotes while conveniently ignoring others. Which is why you guys have no credibility on this issue. Little surprise that the police didn't make an arrest, since it is clear that the HBJ protesters were also engaged in bad behavior.

I'm still waiting on those photos and video evidence. A copy of the police report would also be interesting to read I'm sure.

Talk about spinning the story, look at how many times Jack Phillips has been described as a retired minister, an Episcopalian minister, an old guy, an older gentleman, elderly man, etc. But wait, Marie slipped up and told us that he is also a former marine and not in small stature. Your victim sure looks different if you include “ex marine� next to every reference of minister. Who’s spinning what in this story?

Bubba Kidd, you are starting to sound like the days of Datona and Foy. Joel Angeles was busted big time. It is black and white. Calls for "evidence" to the contrary are pointless. Rationalizing Joel's behavior by saying the anti-Strickland people was bad is ridiculous.

The photo published in the paper says it all. Audra Strickland's Chief of Staff was involved in a tussle and he carried a sign against his candidates opposition. He is a campaign consultant for Tony. He is a paid state employee for Audra and a paid campaign consultant for the Stricklands. Both Tony and Audra are exposed.

You are making it worse for both of them.

Jack Phillips is all of that -- a former Vietnam vet, a retired minister, and 68 years old. And he was knocked to the ground by an out-of-control chief of staff to Audra Strickland. This was done in full view of a newspaper reporter and photographer who verified it in the paper and to their editors at the Star later on. Also many other witnesses.

Phillips has a very painful injury to his arm -- a torn rotator cuff.

This is all indisputable.

Here's a thought, maybe the minister should have turned the other cheek. Perhaps if he actually behaved like a minister on the day in question this whole sorry episode could have been avoided.

I see where Lisa Kuklenski and several others have put their names out there, but who is this Letter to the editor person?

Expressing his First Amendment rights in a peaceful protest against the influence of tobacco money in campaigns was his plan that day.

I don't think he expected to get blind-sided by a raging Strickland employee.

@ Katie Teague

Cookie function?

I have no idea to what you are referring. My blog is a self-hosted Wordpress one and plants no cookies. If you could access it in February before Giuliani dropped out you could access it today - unless your ip address has been banned for spamming. :o)

@ Truth on

Then, why did Jack Phillips not agree to prosecute Joe Angeles at the site of the altercation? The VC Sheriffs would have arrested him and, of course, arrested Phillips too.

Flap looks forward to Phillip's lawsuit, if he can find an attorney to take the case.

@ Katie Teague

Cookie function?

I have no idea to what you are referring. My blog is a self-hosted Wordpress one and plants no cookies. If you could access it in February before Giuliani dropped out you could access it today - unless your ip address has been banned for spamming. :o)

@ Truth on

Then, why did Jack Phillips not agree to prosecute Joe Angeles at the site of the altercation? The VC Sheriffs would have arrested him and, of course, arrested Phillips too.

Flap looks forward to Phillip's lawsuit, if he can find an attorney to take the case.

Hey, maybe HBJ can introduce him to some of her trial lawyer friends.

Flap, I get the header but that's it. I hope you were joking about the being banned part! Maybe you did ban my IP address. Email me at KatieTeague@verizon.net and we can figure this out.

This is classic abuse logic. Somehow it isn't really the perp's fault and the victim's behavior caused the abuse to occur. Very revealing.

"Perhaps if he actually behaved like a minister on the day in question this whole sorry episode could have been avoided."

I don't know if Bubba Kidd is refusing to read the article but it isn't just a he said she said situation. The reporters saw the retired minister get pushed down. That isn't from a quote or another observer. That is directly from the reporters. That was before he got in his face and touched him when he was angered by being pushed down, which happened in front of multiple reporters.

How is it that not a person using their real name, besides Angeles, has said they saw something different, including two reporters, but that doesn't influence your opinion at all? Not any of the articles quotes someone who saw it denying that is what happened besides Angeles. The reporters did a great job of being objective.

Just admit you are voting for Strickland already and you plan to support his campaign!

I trust the multiple reporters who watched it happen.

Is it too much to ask that someone who calls himself a minister actually behave like a minister?

I don't make any excuses about Angeles' behavior, and from day one stated that he shouldn't have been there or allowed himself to get involved in an altercations. It just doesn't look good, no matter who started it.

At the same time, it certainly appears that poor behavior wasn't limited to just one individual or group. It is a fact that Phillips also engaged in a heated exchange of insults and pushing and shoving. That makes him just as guilty as Angeles. It works both ways folks, you can't condemn Angeles while giving a free pass to your guy for doing the same things. That would be hypocritical. It also makes it hard to believe that the incident was as one-sided as has been claimed, since some of the established facts of this case show that individuals on both sides exercised poor judgment. So please spare me the whole victim routine.

Bubba Kidd, because you keep picking at this scab I'm beginning to think you support HB and want to keep the issue going. It is telling you are trying to blame the minister now. You are not scoring any points for the Stricklands yet you persist on posting. Are you trying to keep this issue alive?

Jack Phillips only shouted angrily and put a finger in Angeles' face after being pushed to the ground in front of reporters. And he was in pain.

The others only reacted to being pushed and shoved.

This would not have happened if Angeles had not chased through the crowd like a madman. He shouldn't have been out there in the first place, but he caused the whole thing himself by leaving the curb where he was standing and propelling himself through a group of people trying to stop their progress.

And it might have been a he said/he said if not for the fact that a newspaper reporter and photographer witnessed the whole thing.

He's an absolute idiot for doing this. And this is not the kind of guy who should be working for our legislators. Audra needs to can him and put the whole thing behind her.

Hi Brian. First of all, there is some dispute as to how the whole thing got started. Clearly there were statements by various people on both sides that give different accounts as to the sequence of events. I'm still waiting on someone to post the conclusive photographs and videotape that has been promised. Without it there is no real proof of anything and it all becomes a he-said, she-said debate.

The police clearly did not feel they had enough evidence to establish fault, otherwise they would have arrested or cited someone. They did not. I also keep hearing these absurd claims that the reporters witnessed the event and sided with the HBJ protesters, but nothing in the articles states any such thing. The articles only present various statements from both sides, there are no first hand statements from the reporters or photographer. If they witnessed the incident they should say what they saw first hand in a direct, unanbiguous way. Instead we have various bloggers trying to read between the lines and selectively cherry-picking portions of the article while conveniently ignoring other parts. Sorry, but that just doesn't pass the smell test.

So Brian, at this point there is no way to know for sure who did what first since both sides give two very different accounts. If the reporters who were present made statements to the police that still didn't seem to clear any of this up. Again, this is still just a he-said, she-said argument at this point. And based on the aftermath, it certainly appears that individuals on both sides were quite capable of hostile behavior and physical violence. My guess is that the police believed there was inappropriate conduct on both sides, which is why they avoided making any arrests.

Anybody who has additional photographs, video, or a copy of the police report feel free to post a copy. But be warned that I base my opinions on impartial evidence, not on hearsay from a group of partisan political activists.

As the group moved past Angeles, he ran in front of them, in what appeared to be an effort to stop their movement. (This is narrative directly from the news reporter and not attributed to a source)

Pandolfi said he was pushed. (This is from a source)

Jack Phillips, a Vietnam veteran, retired minister and head of the Camarillo Democratic Club was elbowed to the ground by Angeles, in front of news reporters. His left arm was injured. (This is narrative directly from the news reporter and not attributed to a source)

----

The police couldn't confirm at the point statements were being taken because the impartial news reporter and photographer had left the scene.

Bubba Kidd,

I deleted quotes and only left parts the reporter wrote as observed statements. The reporter wrote observations, not just quotes.

****************************************************
From the newspaper:

Jack Phillips, a Vietnam veteran, retired minister and head of the Camarillo Democratic Club was elbowed to the ground by Angeles, in front of news reporters. His left arm was injured. The two traded heated insults with their faces inches apart.

***************************************************

I think for most involved it is great that reporters were there and not just partisans. As far as further evidence:

1. Pictures.

I don't have anything that helps clarify the situation.

The paper published a picture but reviewed the many pictures they had before they wrote the summary article. They took a few days to write the summary article and interviewed many people to get their facts straight before it was published.

2. Videos.

There is a video rumored taken by Strickland supporters. If it shows that the newspaper was wrong it would have already been released.

The police also took a video from a protester but it doesn't contradict the paper from what I hear.

Both sides agreed not to have the other side arrested. That is why law enforcement didn't arrest anyone.

This reminds me of the global warming skeptics. Even though bounteous evidence is presented to them, they still deny it is happening.

Brian, there are a couple of sentences in the article that are not attributed to a source. However the reporter also does not state anywhere in the article that these were personal observations. That makes the statements ambiguous as to the origin. If the reporter were including personal eye-witness observations in the article then that should have clearly been stated. But the way the article was written leaves that open to conjecture. I'm not willing to make an assumption that these were personal observations of the reporter unless the reporter is willing to go on record and say so. Right now you are only assuming that those statements should be attributed to the reporter. It is also just as possible that they came from statements from other unidentified witnesses, which is done in newspaper articles all the time.

Repeating the same accusations over and over does not make it true. Show me some real evidence that the statements in question are the personal observations of the reporter. Otherwise this is just speculation.

Gopher alert. This is an official gopher alert. Gopher has come out from under a rock. Grab your traps and poison.

Exactly how would you interpret this sentence... Jack Phillips, a Vietnam veteran, retired minister and head of the Camarillo Democratic Club was elbowed to the ground by Angeles, IN FRONT OF NEWS REPORTERS.

Now since she and the Star's photographer were the only "news reporters" there, do you think she is relying on her own eyes or someone else's account that he was elbowed to the ground in front of news reporters?

Yours is a silly argument.

Bubba Kidd,

I talked to many people about it and it is my understanding the reason those weren't attributed was because they were from the reporters themselves.

But don't believe me. Email her: trochester@VenturaCountyStar.com

Tell us what she said.

And who were those who assured you that the unattributed comments were from the reporters themselves? Was it the same democratic party operatives who participated in the anti-Strickland protest?

OK then, I'll do the research for you and ask Rochester directly. If I get a response I'll share it with you.

Until then, I still say you are making some big assumptions, and those assumptions are based on statements from individuals who have an agenda and a strong left bias. I prefer to base my opinions on factual information that is independently verified. Most of the arguments being made in this thread are based on hearsay and conjecture. That is simply not persuasive.

Flap-
I have the same problem Katie does.

Bubba, honey child, did you just say "Democratic Party Operatives"?

*as tears roll down my face while I laugh*

Bubba,

I really take issue with your last post. I have no association whatsoever with the local Democratic Party beyond a few friendships.

I post with my own name, have my own blog on the Star's site and you know very well that I don't always take the same point of view as my fellow Democrats. I am president of local charities and sit on a city commission. My integrity is rock solid. I do not lie. Is that what you are accusing me of?

The incident happened in front of my eyes. The reporter and photographer both talked to me after it happened and verified that they had also witnessed the same thing.

Get on with your life and quit trying to cast doubt on something that is indisputable.

Marie, why don't u go back to Making Waves? Oh yeah, not much activity there unless you are dredging the Strickland name through the mud!

BK is calling Marie a liar. The Stricklands are dragging their name through the mud, not Marie. You'd be better off telling Bubba to go home. He or she keeps posting crap.

I agree, Go HOME! My blog doesn't get anywhere near the traffic Brian's does. I only get 300 to 600 (tops) hits a day. Brian gets 900-1,900, they tell me. But they also tell me people spend a longer time reading my blog.

It's only written for people who live in Ventura. The Star is hoping to launch one for each city. Right now I have something up about the Cross in Grant Park.

I know you're unhappy about my piece on Strickland. But it's 100 percent factually accurate.

@ Ligor Hunter

Katie developed a work around but I am here to comment and not hype my blog. So, I will leave it at that.

@Marie

Can you mention to the VC webmaster tech guys to please troubleshoot your RSS feeds. TIA.

Has anyone heard whether Jack Phillips is going to sue Joel Angeles?

@ Ligor Hunter

Katie developed a work around but I am here to comment and not hype my blog. So, I will leave it at that.

@Marie

Can you mention to the VC webmaster tech guys to please troubleshoot your RSS feeds. TIA.

Has anyone heard whether Jack Phillips is going to sue Joel Angeles?

Bubba Kidd,

The unattributed statements are from the reporters, not any partisan. I understand your reluctance to trust partisans on either side, but the statements of fact in the story are not sourced because they were not from any quotes or interviews.

Marie, nothing is indisputable. I just simply want to confirm the facts for myself rather that taking everything at face value from a single source. I don't know why you are treating my scepticism as an insult to your integrity. The truth is that I've never met a person who is right 100% of the time, and I make it a habit to never make blind assumptions without verifying the facts for myself whenever possible. Also, in my experience, people can often be honestly convinced of what they believe they saw or heard and still be wrong. Honest people can make honest mistakes. That is why police and courts investigate facts from all possible sources before making a finding, rather than assuming that certain individuals are always 100% trustworthy.

It troubles me that you think there is something wrong with me taking the time to verify claims about what the reporter did or did not see. Even if you spoke with the reporter privately afterward you are in no position to speak for her on this blog. If the statements in question in the article were her personal observations, that was not stated explicitly. If anything, the those statements were vague as to the source. Which is why I want to contact the reporter directly to confirm what she saw and to whom those statements should be attributed.

And pardon me for saying this, but the truth is that you are pro HBJ and anti TS, which means that you have a natural bias. And biases can and do play a large role in perception, even for honest people. If you choose to be insulted by my scepticism then that is unfortunate. But in a court of law I wouldn't take my own mother at her word without first independently verifying the facts.

Riiiight, so maybe that wasn't Joel Angeles in the newspaper photo holding a sign and involved in a fracas. And some of the other people holding signs weren't paid Strickland staff members or members of the Republican Central Committee. Maybe it was all photoshopped?

Well then, Bubba, please call the reporter yourself. But you better give her your real name and not "Bubba Kidd," otherwise she will not take you very seriously.

Then I think you should log back on here under your real name and tell us what she said. And then we can question you as intensively as you've questioned me. Do you think it's been easy for me to blog under my own name while anonymous bloggers take potshots at me?

And yes, I take issue with being called a Democratic operative. I was a registered Republican for half my voting life. I'm the only Democrat in my family.

Partisan politics doesn't interest me. I'm a grassroots organizer and I have worked with people on both sides of the aisle. That's the only way to get things done.

Marie is redundant and Katie is a one-issue bore. I say we ban them both. This blog would be so much more interesting and less vitriolic. I thought Marie (the blog hog) had her own blog.

Marie, all politics is partisan. Grassroots is just a term frequently used by candidates in both parties to give a sense of legitimacy to multi-million dollar campaigns funded by big dollar contributors, such as gaming casinos, tobacco companies, public employee unions, and trial lawyers. I'm sure that Tony Strickland's supporters would also claim to be a grassroots operation. So please spare me the political wordplay.

And if you're really that concerned about anonymous bloggers then perhaps blogging is not for you. It is certainly commendable that you willingly blog under your own name, but different people for different reasons choose to remain anonymous. That is the way blogging works. So it is silly to selectively give anonymous bloggers grief when you happen to disagree with something they post. If you eliminated all the anonymous bloggers you'd be left with about ten regular contributors, which would pretty much kill this blogging community. And how much fun would it be for the rest of us to read about how much you, Brian, Laura, and Louis all agree with each other? I'm getting sleepy just thinking about it.

I'll contact your reporter friend and see if she is willing to add her perspective as a contribution to Brian's blog. Maybe she will, maybe she won't.

Meanwhile I would recommend that you take a breath and stop taking everything so personal. As you know, politics is a blood sport and not for the faint of heart. I tend to say things that many people don't want to hear, sometimes deliberately. The world is not as black and white as most people pretend it to be, yourself included. So please excuse me for pushing buttons and challenging people when they claim their beliefs are "indisputable". In my experience there is no such thing.

So Bubba - about those paid GOP political operatives that participated in the rally?

99 percent of the grassroots work I do is for fundraising purposes for charities, not politics.

Having my eyewitness account challenged by you is indeed personal. The news account was very clear as well.

Calling a pig a rose over and over does not make it a rose, Bubba.

Bubba Kidd,

The reporters story was very clear to me and I don't see a need to drag her into this anymore.

But if talking to you would clarify that she was talking about what she saw, not what was told to her, I say just call her at The Star.

By the way, how close to the action would she need to be for you to trust her account over any of the protesters on either side? Within ten feet? Need a picture of that to prove she was there?

Mrs. Strickland is the best witness. She questioned the suspect right after the incident. In her opinion there was enough evidence for her to publicly humiliate her chief of staff.

They probably worked real hard to have Mr. Safety Pants in town. They wanted everything to go perfect then they saw the guy in the cigarette outfit. How would that make you feel? You would be hurt.

We need to be a little more sensitive of the Republican's feelings. When they have the religious figures in town don't talk about the other side of the business.

Brian, there were different accounts as to what happened, with different eye witnesses giving different versions of the sequence of events. Marie would have us believe that her version from her perspective is the only one that should matter. I'm not so quick to conclude that Marie is the only person telling the truth and, therefore, everyone else must be lying. There are things that Marie may have saw or heard that weren't observed by others, as well as things that were observed by others that were not seen or heard by Marie.

Why is that so hard to imagine? If you had a crime that was witnessed by five people and the police interviewed each person, chances are that you would have five different versions of events. Some versions would be slightly different, but some could be dramatically different. We know that it is not uncommon in our legal system for the wrong person to be incriminated based on eyewitness testimony. In fact, in law enforcement and our court system eye witness testimony can often be the most unreliable and inconsistent evidence of all. And that is because, unlike videocameras or DNA evidence, eyewitness testimony is not factual.

Marie may indeed believe that her eyewitness testimoney and memory is infallible, but I can assure her and anyone else that it is not. That is because we are human, and therefore imperfect. And our views are further shaped by our own biases. If you witness a friend or a loved one involved in an altercation your perception of the event is often tainted. And in this instance Marie is clearly not a neutral observer. That is why unbiased testimony is always given more weight in a court of law.

The news article provides statements from both sides that give drastically different versions of the incident. Is everybody but Marie lying? Maybe yes, maybe no, or maybe something in between. Haven't you ever witnessed an argument between two people where each was utterly convinced they were right, yet both versions could not simultaneously be true? It happens all the time between siblings, spouses, friends, and acquaintences. And I bet you have witnessed this between students in the schools where you teach. Honest people can passionately believe something that is not 100% accurate, it happens all the time.

I'd also add that the unattributed statements are just that, unattributed. If the reporter witnessed something she could have stated that clearly in the article, but she did not. It is not our job to assume that these statements were the personal observations of the reporter based on hearsay from a third person. You have made this assumption based on hearsay from Marie instead of going straight to the source.

Both of you seem determined to shut down any further discussion over what happened based on Marie's testimony alone, while dismissing all other contradictory eyewitness accounts. If you are so certain of the truth of your position then you would welcome scrutiny instead of trying to shut down the debate. There are significant disagreements over what happened that day and it may not be as cut and dry as you pretend. If it were that clear then the police almost certainly would have arrested or cited someone. They spoke afterward to the various eyewitnesses and obviously couldn't reach a firm conclusion. And yet you can do what they could not on a blog? I have some serious doubts about that.

There are no contrary opinions whatsoever that Phillips was elbowed to the ground by Angeles. Not in any account anywhere.

The newspaper's account of this was inscrutable. News reporters do not use the words "I" and "we" in their accounts unless it is a column or editorial.

And the longer you prolong this contrary line of reasoning the more certain we all are that you are in bed with the Stricklands and were asked to cast doubt on it.

Bubba is right. Marie and others are attempting to shut down any public discussion on what actually occurred at this rally by screaming louder than those offering a contrary perspective.

That is not democracy. That is demagoguery.

"Truth" helps convey this "our way or the highway" mentality by proclaiming, "And the longer you prolong this contrary line of reasoning the more we are all sure that you are in bed with the Stricklands and were asked to cast doubt on it."

If this is not McCarthy-style demonizing of any opinion contrary to that of the Strickland opponents, I don't know what is.

Bubba Kidd,

I spoke to staff about the statements in question that were not attributed to any of the protesters.

Those statements were formed from what the reporters saw, not by statements made to them.

Feel free to call The Star and ask for clarification on the lines in the story that were not attributed.

I have access to photos showing The Star reporters very close to the incident if you need to see how close they were.

Again, I did not see the shoving between the staff member and the protester.

Welcome back to blogging.

Mr. Phillips himself doesn’t say that he was elbowed to the ground here is his version of the account.
"He was moving back and forth to block people, and he bumped me," Phillips, 67, said. "All of a sudden, I found myself on the ground looking for my hearing aid."
Who would know better whether he was bumped and fell or was "elbowed to the ground".

Phillips own description is void of the volatile, explosive and exaggerated speech found on this blog.

By Bob Larkin
Tuesday, June 24, 2008

Re: your June 8 article, "Tobacco firm funds county GOP":

As a 30-year member and past chairman of the Ventura County Republican Party, I was disappointed to hear that after two decades of Ventura being a Republican county, Democrats now outnumber Republicans in registered voters. That wasn't too surprising, though, when statewide registration this year has been 20-to-1 in favor of the Democrats — 300,000 to 15,000. There has to be a message there if the Republicans are listening.

Just when I thought I couldn't hear worse news, I learned that 88 percent of the funds the Ventura County Republican Party has on hand came from one tobacco company, primarily to support Tony Strickland for the California Senate. Local Republicans should not accept money from the manufacturer of a product that kills upward of a half-million people in the United States every year and hundreds of millions worldwide.

I have six personal reasons why the very idea disgusts me:

— My dad was a heavy smoker and died of a heart attack at age 53.

The 10 children in our family were born in the 1930s and '40s and grew up in the '40s and '50s. Smoking was considered healthy and glamorous. All 10 of us smoked, as did Johnny Carson, live on "The Tonight Show," and nearly everyone in the movies.

— My oldest brother has emphysema.

— My next older sister had throat cancer, followed by lung cancer, and died of a heart attack.

— A younger brother had emphysema and heart trouble before he died in an accident.

— My youngest brother died in an apartment fire that was apparently started by a cigarette.

— Twenty-five years after I quit smoking, I lost a chunk of my tongue to mouth cancer.

The idea that the Ventura County Republican Party and the Stricklands have to beg for money from tobacco companies makes my skin crawl. I would hope they can see what that does to their image, get away from it and get back to raising money the old-fashioned way from local Republicans: by earning it.

The good news for my family is that as far as I know, not one of our children, grandchildren or great-grandchildren smokes.

One generation paid a very high price for supporting the tobacco industry, and that was more than enough.

— Bob Larkin lives in Westlake Village.

Bottomline here is that Angeles broke the law by trying to block free speech, trying to block a public sidewalk and then physically assualting several people. The big question is if he was acting on the orders of the Strickland's, if he was, then this could very likely be a criminal conspiracy. Of course with Boss Hogg at the VCRCC running VC, we need an outside group I think like the FBI to come in and do a real investigation!

I laugh reading Bubba and Mongo's crap. They are just like the jury at the first OJ trial. Despite the truth that this Angeles acted like a thug and caused all the problems they are in complete denial. Bubba and Mongo could watch Angeles stomp on the face of someone in a coma in the hospital and still blame the person in the coma. They both take the meaning of lemming to new heights!

Criminal conspiracy, eh Mongo's Girlfriend? What planet are you living on again?

This was one individual getting a little over-enthusiastic - nothing more, nothing less. He was acting just like the VCDCC lemmings that were there throwing their weight around.

He has already been put in time-out and that will be the end of it. If there was sufficient justification/evidence to warrant criminal charges against him, they would have already been filed. Move on, for God's sake.

Mr. Larkin,
Sad to hear about all the illness in your family from their decisions to use tobacco. Your next generation is smart to abstain and they didn't even need tobacco to be illegal to make the right choice. Less restrictions and tax; more personal responsibility.

Mango, your opinion means absolutely nothing. You were not there. You are nothing but a lemming and hand puppet for the Strickland's. Let me educate you on the law Mango, if the Strickland's ordered their thug Angeles to physically assualt someone and break the law, then that is a criminal conspiracy. We need the big boys from the FBI to come in and investigate this matter because Boss Hogg at the VCRCC won't allow a real investigation and even if he did I don't think Enos and Sheriff Roscoe P. Coltrane are up to the task. By the way Mongo, tell you mom I said hello.

Already knowing current VCRCC Chairman Osborn's ambitions and agenda to do what-ever-it-takes to keep any Strickland in office,Bob Larkin supported the ouster of the last chairman knowing it would result in Osborn's election.

Had Larkin and his co-horts (the Gallegly gaggle) left it alone, the chairman would have finished out the rest of the term and the likely VCRCC incoming Chairman would have been Commander Dave Tennessesn - a man of integrity.

Thanks Bob.

Mango, your opinion means absolutely nothing. You were not there. You are nothing but a lemming and hand puppet for the Strickland's. Let me educate you on the law Mango, if the Strickland's ordered their thug Angeles to physically assualt someone and break the law, then that is a criminal conspiracy. We need the big boys from the FBI to come in and investigate this matter because Boss Hogg at the VCRCC won't allow a real investigation and even if he did I don't think Enos and Sheriff Roscoe P. Coltrane are up to the task. By the way Mongo, tell your mom I said hello.

If Mongo's opinion is so useless, why are you fighting so hard against it, M's Daddy? Must have a ring of truth to it or it wouldn't push your buttons so effectively. And yeah, the FBI . . I'm sure they'll get right on it.

Mongo's Daddy,
What about Louis Pandolfi who, expecting a “run-in�, organized the protesters and led them across the street to confront the Strickland supporters? Shouldn’t the FBI be investigating him too?

This is now just a useless thread of people struggling to have the last word.

Mongo's Whiny Little Pocket Mouse,

Hey, I was there, dude. I just happened to be enjoying Mitt's and Tony's fine speeches inside the hotel while you and your lemmings were out there banging placards up against each other.

You are nothing but a loser, my friend. Always have been and always will be...

I agree with Last Word.

Moveon.org onto another topic if you don't have something new to add.

Hey, butt flea (aka Mongo's Daddy), if you're gonna pretend to be a tough guy then please stop plagiarizing me and come up with your own material. You are so unoriginal that you actually copied my "I'm your daddy" and "say hi to your mom" comments. How dumb do you have to be to not even be capable of coming up with your own insults? No wonder why you just repeat DNC talking points over and over, you apparently have no original thoughts of your own. Even your blogging name is a ripoff.

For a guy who dislikes me so much, you sure seem to spend a lot of time mimicking the things I say. As I've said before, you're nothing but a flea on a dog's ass pretending to be the dog.

Bubba Kidd,
You're not talking to a prisoner at Guantanamo... You're talking to an American citizen...

Let's keep it American...

Give me a break, I haven't interrogated any prisoners at Guantanamo for several weeks now.

BK, you slacker...

Enough of the finger pointing. Nothing new is coming out of it. The best venue for resolving the dispute is in the Courts and this assault and battery by a State employee against multiple citizens will be heading to Court shortly. Then some of these unnamed "witnesses" may have to come forward, under oath, and tell the truth. Only then will Joel Angeles face the music that will be his demise. You can take that to the bank.

CAP-812,

Coming from such a non-partisan as yourself, I think we can all feel good about taking it to the bank.

Glad I can give you some feel good in special places. Feel the safety in the bank.

Hey loser duo Mango/Bubba. LA Times gives Obama a double digit lead and all predictions show a complete GOP butt kicking come November in all races across the country! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Latest registration numbers in VC show the dems extending their lead, great job Osborn and faithful lemmings Bubba and Mango! LOL LOL LOL!! But seriously, you both tell your momma's I said hello and good day.

I told my momma, and she scratched the dog's ass to say hello right back.

Hey Bubba,

I hear something buzzing around my rear end. Must be that little gnat, Mongo's Girlfriend. He can't help trying to be me, can he? They say imitation is the greatest form of flattery, but, in his case, I can't help but feel sorry for him.

Hey what's that noise? - bzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

Has the VCRCC district attorney given back the video yet? I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up lost or accidentally erased. That's their style.

I agree with Last Word.

Moveon.org onto another topic if you don't have something new to add.

The horse has been beaten.

Booba and Mango, AKA Dumb and Dumber. Let's check the polls today. President Bush who is a hero to Booba and Mango now has an approval rating of just 23%, that is lower than Nixon at his lowest. 81% of all American's blame Bush for high gas prices and 60% of all Republicans blame Bush. A majority of Republicans also feel the Country is worse off then it was 7 years ago. Face it suckers, even Republicans aren't buying your crap anymore. People also know that McCain would be nothing but a third term of Bush. Also in the headlines is that the Justice Department under Bush has only hired Republicans out of law school and screened out anyone who was not a rabid Republican, regardless of their ability. This is why I can't stand hypocrits like Bubba who claims the GOP wants free market principles when they reject the best people because they are not extremists. Also Booba and Mango don't worry about your masters the Stricklands, Boss Hogg at the VCRCC won't let Enos and Roscoe P. Coltrane do a real investigation into them sending their goon out to beat up on an old man, they only have to worry if the FBI or some other group comes to VC to do a real investigation.

Hey Mongo & Bubba's Cellmate,

Let it go, would you? Everyone else seems to have. But, you're still clinging to it like the little prissy girl that you are.

McCain is going to beat Obama in November. The American public has not figured out who this guy really is yet and he's only got a few months to show them. That's not enough time, if you ask me.


By Brian on June 25, 2008 7:52 PM

I agree with Last Word.

Moveon.org onto another topic if you don't have something new to add.

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  • Moveon: By Brian on June 25, 2008 7:52 PM I read more
  • Mongo Flamo: Hey Mongo & Bubba's Cellmate, Let it go, would you? read more
  • Bubba & Mongo's Daddy: Booba and Mango, AKA Dumb and Dumber. Let's check the read more
  • Brian: I agree with Last Word. Moveon.org onto another topic if read more
  • nobody: Has the VCRCC district attorney given back the video read more
  • Mongo Flamo: Hey Bubba, I hear something buzzing around my rear end. read more
  • Bubba Kidd: I told my momma, and she scratched the dog's ass read more
  • Bubba's & Mongo's Daddy: Hey loser duo Mango/Bubba. LA Times gives Obama a double read more
  • CAP-812: Glad I can give you some feel good in special read more
  • Both Sides Share Some Blame: CAP-812, Coming from such a non-partisan as yourself, I think read more