The Stricklands knew about the protest and planned a counter protest and put a doberman in charge. So the doberman bit and everyone is surprised? He wasn't merely a supporter, he was a taxpayer-paid chief of staff.

If you allow bullies to go on unchecked they will just bully somebody else.
Audra certainly let him off the hook with the phony suspension, delaying it until a time when he would've been off anyway.

Good for these three people who finally summoned their courage to stand up for what was right.

I was RickRolled!!!

The complaint needs to be prominently displayed in public because the DA's office will bury it like they have buried all the other complaints against the Stricklands. Why do you think the "investigative" lawyer was endorsed by the STricklands in the recent Judge race? He knew better than to file charges - career came first.

I'm curious why these individuals waited more than five weeks before filing a criminal complaint. I would also like to know if any new allegations suddenly materialized that were not made previously. Some of the statements seem to contain allegations I haven't heard until now.

I can tell you that any investigation will compare the statements made by witnesses on the day of the incident against the revised statements made more than a month later in the criminal complaint. If there are significant inconsistencies (ie new or substantially altered accusations) it could make it difficult to bring charges. Witnesses need to resist the temptation to embellish their stories, otherwise it harms their credibility and jeopardizes any possible criminal case. Generally speaking, investigators don't like to rely on statements made weeks or months after an alleged crime since memories often change over time, plus it provides too much of an opportunity for individuals to compare notes and coordinate their stories. The initial statements documented at the scene will be given far more weight than the ones made this week.

And don't forget that this case is already complicated by the fact that it involves witnesses on both sides of an already bitter political campaign. That makes it doubly difficult for investigators, since the impartiality of various witnesses might be in question. Greater weight is always given to neutral observers, but in this case there are none.

I'm curious why these individuals waited more than five weeks before filing a criminal complaint. I would also like to know if any new allegations suddenly materialized that were not made previously. Some of the statements seem to contain allegations I haven't heard until now.

I can tell you that any investigation will compare the statements made by witnesses on the day of the incident against the revised statements made more than a month later in the criminal complaint. If there are significant inconsistencies (ie new or substantially altered accusations) it could make it difficult to bring charges. Witnesses need to resist the temptation to embellish their stories, otherwise it harms their credibility and jeopardizes any possible criminal case. Generally speaking, investigators don't like to rely on statements made weeks or months after an alleged crime since memories often change over time, plus it provides too much of an opportunity for individuals to compare notes and coordinate their stories. The initial statements documented at the scene will be given far more weight than the ones made this week.

And don't forget that this case is already complicated by the fact that it involves witnesses on both sides of an already bitter political campaign. That makes it doubly difficult for investigators, since the impartiality of various witnesses might be in question. Greater weight is always given to neutral observers, but in this case there are none.

The 11 witness statements were compiled just days after the incident when all was fresh in mind.

Why did the three wait to file the complaint? Because they were scared and intimidated and it took awhile for them to find good legal advice first.

The neutral observers would be the press who were there.

My guess is that it took this long for Pandolfi to get their video tape back and destroy it so that no objective evidence of their assault existed.

Voter, good guess, but wrong. The police returned the video to its owner two days after the event.

It still begs the question, if the witness statements were compiled days after the incident, why did it still take more than five weeks for Quiring, Phillips and Pandolfi to submit these statements to investigators and file their criminal complaint? It is laughable to claim that these folks were somehow "scared and intimidated", given that they have been talking to the press since day one. And didn't the witnesses already make statements to police on the day of the incident? Why then is there a need to assemble a new set of witness declarations long after the incident took place?

I also find it amusing how Pandolfi's version of events continues to evolve and become ever more exaggerated over time. Now we have an entirely new take on it where Angeles allegedly makes "the ultimate threat" by stating, "If you step foot on this curb, you will go down." Next we'll probably hear how Angeles used a flying back kick against a defenseless little old lady and her poodle. LMAO!!

And hey, where was the poor, feeble senior citizen/minister/Vietnam veteran? Of all people, should he be the one filing a criminal complaint? One can only hope that the only impartial observer, the news reporter, can at least provide investigators with some rational statements about the series of events.

My guess is that the investigators were laughing their asses off after the visit by the Pandolfi and friends travelling circus. This whole overblown incident get more comical by the day.

The following was released to the media on behalf of all three injured parties, John (Jack) Phillips (the Vietnam vet and former Episcopal minister), Sandy Quiring and Louis Pandolfi. Their stories have not changed an iota since day 1. I am told the detectives took this incident very, very seriously. Additional witness statements were gathered from the multiple parties who were there but were not interviewed by the police. These were assembled approximately two days after the incident.

Press release:
On June 17, 2008, approximately 55 men, women and children assembled at the Westlake Hyatt Hotel to protest a $50,000 contribution that the Ventura County Republican Central Committee received from the tobacco industry for the perceived benefit of Tony Strickland’s campaign for State Senate. Many of the protestors had lost family members from lung cancer. All shared a common interest that opposed the tobacco industry’s attempt to sway the local political process by making such a large contribution.

As we entered the only public access to the protest area along Westlake Boulevard, the group was challenged by Joel Angeles, Chief of Staff to State Assemblymember Audra Strickland, who warned us to turn back. “You are atheists,� he shouted. “You are not Americans – you are cowards.� And then came the ultimate threat. “If you step foot on this curb, you will go down.� He held his outstretched had in front of him in a manner known to signify “halt.� This conduct was memorialized in a photo that ran in The Ventura County Star newspaper.

Our group was stunned by hearing such untruths and un-American language. But, thinking that the agitator could not be seriously making such blatantly illegal threats, in the best tradition of American democracy we proceeded with our lawful demonstration. It turns out that we misjudged the intent of the public employee we faced, who had every intention of carrying out his threat.

Several members of our group, including Louis J. Pandolfi, a Simi Valley Republican and organizer of the protest; John (Jack) B. Phillips, a minister, senior citizen and Vietnam veteran from Camarillo; and Sandy Quiring, a recent high school graduate from Simi Valley; stepped onto the sidewalk and all three were promptly knocked to the ground by
Mr. Angeles. Ms. Quiring, thrown into the shrubs, sustained minor cuts to her arms and Mr. Phillips suffered a rotator cuff injury. Mr. Pandolfi immediately called 911 and summoned the Sheriffs.

The assaults and batteries were witnessed by not only dozens of citizens present at the event, but also by members of the press.

These were attacks not only on our persons, but also on our cherished American freedoms. Americans have long fought or lost loved ones in the struggles to establish and defend our Constitution and its Bill of Rights, including the one so blatantly violated on June 17th, 2008 – the right to express ourselves, by public protest, and to speak our opinions.

Jack Phillips, a 1962 Naval Academy graduate, was awarded the Bronze Star in Vietnam, following a family tradition of service to flag and country going back to the Revolutionary War. Sandy Quiring is from the newest generation of patriots. Sandy just graduated high school and is headed for a Political Science major in college, facing the future with wide open eyes and a desire to immerse herself in the great political process of our country.

Today, we have said we can not turn our backs on those who have given of themselves over the centuries to defend our Constitutional rights. Today we have said that a government employee who is paid hundreds of thousands of dollars per year to work for the taxpayers of our great state who are having so much trouble making ends meet, cannot get away with lawlessness in promoting his political beliefs. Women, men and children were prepared to peacefully demonstrate against the tobacco industry in the spirit of democracy.

Today, we have filed criminal complaints against Joel Angeles and we have demanded that the Sheriff’s Department investigate the allegations and forward that investigation to the District Attorney for prosecution. In filing these criminal complaints, not only have we presented to the Sheriff our victim statements, but we have also provided the Sheriff with Declarations from eleven witnesses who have prepared their Declarations of Fact under penalty of perjury.

We have put our faith in the fair and impartial legal system in Ventura County, a system to which we have all looked to with pride for many years. Today, we ask that justice be done, not just for the victims of Mr. Angeles’ violence, but for the free speech and freedom of assembly rights in our Constitution, for which so many others have given their last, full measure.

We can do no less on behalf of the American democratic system.

Louis J. Pandolfi

John B. Phillips

Sandy Quiring

"Greater weight is always given to neutral observers, but in this case there are none."

Why do you keep on omitting there were multiple reporters that saw what happened?

The reporter from The Star has already said she saw what happened and it matches what was written here. Why not all the critical thought to the other side? Both sides should be viewed with skepticism but you seem unable to do that because of your partisan beliefs.

Finally, the facts come out, thanks to the hard work of our learned legal mind Bubba. Who needs a judicial process when we have this idiot working the system.

And here I thought he had died in his gopher den.

Give me a break. Just because the news reporters made statements to police doesn't mean that they have corroborated all of the ridiculous and ever-changing claims made by Pandolfi and his travelling circus. You guys really need a reality check.

By the way, a press release does not qualify as objective, factual information. Especially not that joke of a press release that I just read. Funny how there is no mention that there was pushing, shoving and name-calling on on BOTH sides, or that there were conflicting accounts given by different witnesses. I got a toothache reading the part about how Quiring, Phillips and Pandolfi are now defending our Constitutional rights "in the best tradition of American democracy", protecting "our cherished American freedoms" and fighting for Americans who "have long fought or lost loved ones in the struggles to establish and defend our Consititution and its Bill of Rights". Talk about being full of yourselves.

Naturally, the pretentious grandstanding and self-serving praise doesn’t end there. We also get extensive references to the abounding partriotism and heroism displayed by Quiring, Phillips and Pandolfi. Phillips does admittedly have some nice credentials, being a USNA graduate and recipient of the Bronze Star, and is apparently not shy about discussing his “family tradition of service to flag and country going back to the Revolutionary War�, although I’m still not clear on the relevance of all of this to the shoving match in question. My biggest chuckle was the reference to Quiring as among “the newest generation of patriots� by virtue of having graduated high school and “facing the future with wide open eyes�. LMAO!!

If you guys have such “faith in the fair and impartial legal system in Ventura County�, then maybe you should simply file your complaint and allow the process to work, instead of trying the case in the media “on behalf of the American democratic system�.

But I have to admit, you guys are always good for a laugh.

Bubba,

As always, your comments follow the Fox tradition of "Fair and Balanced."

(By the way, really fine attempt at a verbal hatchet job on the reputation of a decorated veteran! Do you feel the same way about John McCain talking about his "family tradition" of service to this nation?)

Drop your spin in defense of your friends the Stricklands and let the courts decide this.

Bubba Kidd is just like a jurist on the original OJ trial. Here are the facts. The reason Pandolfi and the others had to go and file a complaint themselves is because Totten and Brooks would never file against the Strickland's, regardless of what they did. I admire Pandolfi's guts as much as I despise the Strickland's and the VCRCC who only exist to enrich themselves and to push their extremist right wing christian coalition views on others. The complaint will go nowhere because Totten and Brooks will do nothing because they would be out of office quickly if they investigated and found a crime was committed. Totten and Brooks are inner circle members of the VCRCC. Things will not change in VC as long as the fox is in the henhouse, the only way to get change is to vote out the Strickland's and everyone the VCRCC supports this November.

+__+,

Why are we to assume that the reporters are impartial? Just because someone is given a press credential does that mean that they then ignore all of their personal opinions and beliefs?

I don't assume anyone is truly neutral but if there everyone that doesn't officially support Strickland seem to have seen the same thing that seems pretty convincing.

I am interested in why Bubba Kidd thinks Strickland said her chief of staff displayed poor judgment? What did he do wrong?

Bubba's Daddy,

I still say let it go forward through the system.

If later it is found that justice was delayed or denied by anyone at any level, our system allows for other remedies at higher levels of the justice system for reviewing procedures, rectifying the inaction or injustice and providing redress for all involved.

It is all about how intent EVERYONE is on seeing justice done.

I think we all agree that going through the system is a decent idea.

I agree with you Captain Renault. As you say, we should drop the spin and let the courts decide. Then again, I'm not the one going public with hilariously one-sided press releases. I'm only responding to the spin, not creating it.

Speaking of spin, nice touch trying to spin this as an attack on the patriotism and reputation of a decorated veteran. That was a good one. You liberals sure do like to have it both ways. I guess that fits nicely into the tradition of lefties, like yourself, arbitrarily calling anyone who disagrees with them a racist, sexist, homophobe, etc.

BTW, do you agree with the conspiracy theory advanced by Bubba's butt flea? That doesn't seem consistent with your recommendation of letting the courts decide. Even Quiring, Phillips and Pandolfi stated that they have "faith in the fair and impartial legal system in Ventura County, a system to which we have all looked to with pride for many years." If the investigation results in no charges or an acquittal, are you prepared to accept the verdict of our justice system? Or do you instead prefer to rely the trial by media approach that we see on display here?

Bubba,

You are ever the passive-aggressive victim!

Sob a new song, sister. You are singing off key!

If Joel Angeles is bound to answer a criminal complaint how long do you think it would be before he is tried? He will waive his right to a speedy trial and discovery alone will lag into 2009.

A civil suit against Angeles would take even longer.

This may affect his job with the Stricklands should he be convicted of assault. But, wouldn't he claim self-defense and plea down to a lesser charge for expediency?

I do not see these nebulous charges affecting either of the Strickland's races in November.

I dont know WHAT happened so I have no comment on the incident but while Strickland's aide may or may not be held accountable for the fracas, Strickland herself needs to do more than admit her C-of-S was out of place. She needs to apologize for failing to make it very clear to her staffers that confrontations of any sort with citizens is forbidden.

That she apparently never made this rule a condition of employment on her staff speaks volumes about Strickland's ability to conduct herself as an elected official.

No elected official should ever appear to be using taxpayer-paid muscle to thwart the free expression of his/her constituents.

If Strickland's aide is found to have committed assault then that's exactly what everyone will think has happened. If Strickland's aide is exonerated of wrongdoing, it's what half of everyone will think has happened.

If the statements the witnesses made are true what the Republican chief of staff did was a HATE CRIME!

"Angeles called the protesters "atheists,"

It is a felony to attack someone for their religious beliefs. Atheists have religious beliefs. They believe God doesn't exist.

Now you and I may disagree with that, but in no way does that give us the right to assault someone. This complaint must be handled properly by someone in a timely matter.

Bubba Kidd,
Please stop wasting valuable Dennert Blog real estate with your drunken fascist lunatic logic. Everything you said is a blatant attempt to avoid the truth in this matter. Please crawl back under your rock.

Nobody,

Accusing Bubba Kidd of "drunken fascist lunatic logic" is ridiculous and only makes you appear to be foolish and unable to participate in civil discourse. Granted this is a familiar role for you, but if you want to dish out insults, as Bubba is fond of doing himself, at least come up with something original or scathingly funny, disarming and worthy of your opponent.

Another observation to consider is the amount of time Dennert has been forced to spend deleting your posts, and giving you "time outs" from posting on his blog for boorish behavior and threatening to beat people up in parking lots. You're the last one here (except maybe for Mongo) who should be assuming the role of "board nanny", and accusing someone of wasting Dennert's blog space and time. Not at least until you reach the point where you can wear big boy pants.

In other words, if you don't have game, sit on the bench and watch to learn how it's played. If you want to make yourself useful in the meantime, Waterboy, go get the rest of us some Gatorade.

Wow Laura, you sure do know how to tangle with the big boys. All I can say is that I'm really turned on right now.

XXX OOO

eeewwwww...TMI-BK

This whole situation is a clear case of "he said/she said", which is further complicated by the fact that it comes in the middle of a raucous, partisan political contest.

Bubba got it right. Trying to find neutral, unbiased witnesses to this so-called "fracas" will be the investigative equivalent of finding a needle in a haystack.

This criminal investigation is going nowhere. It's simply another attempt by Jackson's supporters at creating negative publicity for the Strickland campaign.

Mongo,

Are you with the D.A.'s office or Sheriff's department that you know the status of the investigation?

If so, please share. Inquiring minds want to know.

It isn't hard to find someone not working for either candidate. Ask the multiple reporters that saw what happened!

I find it appalling that the Stricklands keep Mr. Angeles on the payroll. He should have been fired the day the photos appeared in the paper. I certainly don't want my tax dollars paying his salary and I imagine I'm not alone.

By The Facts,
Why are we to assume that the reporters are impartial? Just because someone is given a press credential does that mean that they then ignore all of their personal opinions and beliefs?

By The Facts,
Why are we to assume that the reporters are impartial? Just because someone is given a press credential does that mean that they then ignore all of their personal opinions and beliefs?

Jimmy M,

For that matter, how can you say that any witness to any event is impartial? If so, are you saying that investigators should not interview witnesses at all in searching out information to help them determine the truth in any potential crime investigation? Would you go a step further and say that investigators (or prosecutors) themselves may also suffer this human frailty of personal opinions and beliefs that may influence their perception of truth?

Everybody has biases that impact their judgment and perception. That is just a fact of life. It affect law enforcement officers, teachers, politicians, judges, reporters, etc. A good judge, DA or law enforcement officer will try to set aside their biases and pre-conceived opinions as much as possible, but that doesn't mean that they don't still shape our thoughts.

With regard to the incident in question, investigators will will review all the witness statements and any physical evidence that may exist. Credibility of witnesses is always a very important consideration since statements can be tainted based on personal biases, which clearly exist in this case. If there are clear and consistent accounts of the incident and it fits with the physical evidence then it could lead to criminal charges if the DA feels there is a reasonable probability of convincing a jury. If not, then there will likely be no charges filed, though it doesn't eliminate the possibility of a seperate civil suit, which has a much lower standard of proof.

I am not privy to the actual evidence of this case, but the fact that many of the witnesses have both personal and political motives that could taint their testimony or impune their credibility leads me to believe that criminal charges are unlikely. The fact that several witnesses have already gone public and may have altered or embellished their statements over time also hurts this case. A good defense attorney would have no problem shredding the credibility of these recent witness statements based on the obvious political motives. If I were a defense attorney I would have the recent press release from Quiring, Phillips and Pandolfi as exhibit #1.

Now I'm not saying Angeles is guilty or innocent, but I am saying that having key witnesses wage a very public, politically-motivated attack against him prior to trial actually makes it much harder to prosecute. Plus the DA's office has little incentive to get in the middle of a bitter political campaign during an election year unless the evidence is pretty strong, and in this case it is likely that there are conflicting accounts from the various witnesses on both sides. So my prediction is that no charges will be filed. My other prediction is that none of this will have an impact on the election results in November either way.

Every last person at the scene that wasn't a Strickland supporter agreed Audra Strickland's Chief of Staff pushed Phillips to the ground.

Sure they have their own bias and perspectives. But with many different perspectives including multiple reporters this isn't a he said, she said. More like they said versus he said.

There isn't a witness from the other side except the Chief Of Staff that has come forward that witnessed what happened.

I am curious why Bubba Kidd thinks Audra Strickland said that her Chief of Staff displayed poor judgment. What was in poor judgment?

A good defense attorney would try and contact Quiring, Phillips, and Pandolfi and try and apologize.

As usual what Bubba Kidd said was false and/or a sample of bad lawyer tricks. A good lawyer with common sense would try not to appear slippery. Everybody knows witness can have different accounts of the same incident. It doesn't mean they are lying. It also doesn't mean a jury cannot be provided with a clear picture of what occurred and who is at fault.

Laura Winchester,
I will watch how you insult Conejo Valley School Board members more closely so I can learn the proper way to insult people.

Oh yeah.... You lost your last election. Maybe your way isn't the best way either...

Captain,

I work for neither, but I know folks who work for both offices. Trust me, this case is going nowhere. They're simply going through the motions. You can hold me to that.

I agree with Mongo, this case is going nowhere. The hilarious part is that the Quiring, Phillips, and Pandolfi have destroyed their own credibility with their political grandstanding and public smear campaign against Angeles, which only makes prosecution of him even less likely. There's not a chance in hell that prosecuters can use your statements now. Good job.

Hey nobody, I'd love to see you hire a defense attorney who has a philosophy of contacting your accusers and apologizing. They say that a person who represents himself has a fool for a client, but in your case it works with or without an attorney. LOL!

Bubba...you are demented...but it amuses me. So I've posted a little youtube for you.

And Nobody, always a little sloppy with your facts. You say I lost my last election? Really? Gee, I wonder why I got sworn in for another two year term this week.

Why don't you show us how fair and balanced you are Bubba and tell us why Strickland already said he showed poor judgment?

Right back at you Laura.

I answered that question last month, but since you keep asking I'll answer it again. Angeles showed poor judgment just by being there. If this shouting/shoving match involved a couple of no-name protesters the story would have been over as quickly as it started. But the involvement of a Stickland staff member in a confrontation with protesters, whether guilty of anything or not, gives HBJ and her supporters extra ammo to keep the story alive in the news. They will now try to milk this thing all the way to November. That is why Audra Stickland suspended him without pay and said he exercised poor judgment. It is not an admission that he did anything wrong, only that he should have known better than to be there in the first place.

With regard to his actual guilt or innocence, that will have to be decided by our justice system. Given that HBJ is an attorney and former prosecutor, she should know better than anyone that Angeles is still entitled to due process and a presumption of innocence. Anything less would be a violation of his civil rights.

I've already answered that question several times, but since you keep asking I'll answer it again. Angeles exercised poor judgment by attending the protest. It doesn't matter if he is guilty or not, he should not have been there or allowed himself to get involved in a confrontation with protesters under any circumstances. Had this incident involved a couple of no-name individuals the story would have been over as fast as it started. But the involvement by a Stickland staff member allows HBJ and her supporters to milk this story all the way to November, regardless of what actually happened that day.

With regard to the guilt or innocence of Angeles, that will have to be determined by our justice system. As an attorney and former prosecutor, Hannah Beth Jackson should know better than anyone that Angeles is entitled to due process and a presumption of innocence. Anything less would be a violation of his civil rights.

If gopher alerts were permitted, one would surely be issued based on the pathetic ramblings of BK. Amazing that a vermin which has no knowledge of what went on at the protest can offer such understanding of the events.

It is the involvement of a taxpayer paid staff member that makes this a story with legs. And by suspending him, Audra did admit he did something wrong. Angeles should be fired - he is now a political nightmare for both Strickands. Perception is he is a thug and perception is 100% of the game.

The Stricklands can not appear to be using their taxpayer provided staffers as thugs to prevent the opposition from speaking. This may be acceptable in Russia, Zimbabwe and Pakistan but it is NOT acceptable in Ventura County.

Also, Strickland's failure to control her staffers has placed hers and Tony's supporters in the DA's office in a very awkward position.

Angeles is more than just a staff member for both of the Stricklands. According to many sources, he is the Stricklands. Without him, they are back on the unemployment line. The problem now, and for the first time, is that with him they may be on the employment line as well. It is great that BK and Gibson profess to know what Angeles did or didn't do at the protest. The facts are very clear, however, and very soon Angeles will be plea bargaining for a disturbing the peace conviction as the lesser of many options. Just like any other criminal, Angeles will be forced to step up to the line and take his punishment. After all, isn't the mantra of many "if you do the crime, you serve the time"?

Surf's up. See you at the pier.

Jeez, Laura and Bubba, go get a room.

I was one of the 11 witnesses who signed a statement on what I saw right after the event. I am still very clear in my recollection and my acquaintances at the event had exactly the same take on it.

But I won't come under Bubba's fire here for "playing it out in the media."

But I will say this: They should have just let us stand on our end of the sidewalk away from their group and called it a day. None of this would have happened. The press coverage of the anti-tobacco protest would have been minimal. What surprised me more than anything was Angeles' willingness to jump into the fray in full view of the media.

I find it fascinating how the many of the lefties on this blog are so quick to deny due process to an individual when it suits their political purposes. These are the same individuals who self-righteously wrap themselves in the flag and declare to the world that they are the defenders of civil liberties in America. These are the same folks who support the rights of workers to organize, and who demand laws protecting worker rights. Yet these same individuals are now demanding that Angeles, a public employee, be terminated from his job immediately, without any due process. Apparently republicans are not to be afforded the same rights as enlightened liberals. It seems that those annoying little details, like first obtaining a criminal conviction, or even waiting for the filing of criminal charges can be selectively applied.

It is shocking that Marie thinks that a man should be terminated from his job based on statements from her and a handful of other people without first allowing this person to have his day in court. Careful what you wish for since it may be you that someday has to rely on due process and the protections of our justice system. Civil liberties selectively applied aren't civil liberties at all.

Even if I witnessed somebody committing a crime and was 100% certain of their guilt, it would be un-American for me to suggest that they be denied their due process rights, which includes a trial by their peers and a presumption of innocence. My role would be to provide my testimony and to allow the justice system to do its job. Sadly, Marie and the other members of the Pandolfi mob have become what they claim to despise.

Actually I should clarify my last post before Marie goes off on me. After re-reading my post I think it was unfair for me to link Marie with Quiring, Phillips, and Pandolfi since she has not been part of their political grandstanding and five-weeks-later criminal complaint. Katie is perhaps more deserving of my ire for actually suggesting that a public employee be terminated from his job based solely on perception, regardless of proof or due process. That makes Katie a very scary person.

And GS also provides us with incredible irony in his statement, "this may be acceptable in Russia, Zimbabwe and Pakistan but it is NOT acceptable in Ventura County". Just for your 411, punishing a person without first providing them with due process rights and a presumption of innocence would actually make Ventura County more like Russia, Zimbabwe and Pakistan. duh.

The same applies to Moondoggie and CAP. And by the way, I have never claimed to know what Angeles did or didn't do at the protest. All of my statements have made it clear that I have no idea what did or did not happen. And if this case goes to trial the judge and jury will also have no personal knowledge about the guilt or innocence of Mr. Angeles. But all of them will be bound by one thing, which is a presumption of innocence and insuring his rights to a fair trial. All I have said from the beginning was then he should be allowed his day in court, and if he is convicted then he will have to deal with the consequences of his actions. Until then we have an obligation to allow the process to work.

BK, I have not insisted that Angeles be punished. In fact I've made it clear I don't know what happened during the incident. I HAVE been very clear about Strickland's failure to avoid the appearance of state employees acting as her personal thugs. THAT is indeed what goes on in the places I mentioned and should not happen here. Strickland needs to accept the blame for allowing it to happen.

It doesn't matter how long it takes to file charges or who files them - the damage was done the day the photo of Joel Angeles, C of S for Audra Strickland and article appeared in the paper. The Stricklands need to get in front of this story instead of ignoring it - it only makes it worse. As do posts defending him.

Bubba,

If you haven't figured it out by now, Katie is on a one-woman mission to torpedo the Stricklands (ever since she got bumped from the VCRCC). So, her credibility is just a notch below zero here. I wouldn't waste any more time responding to her pointless rants.

Believe me, no one's going to be punished here. This is old news, without a leg to stand on. The Star (liberal publication as it is) barely gives it any coverage anymore.

It's all about jilted, ex-Republican wackos (like Katie) and Hannah-Beth Jackson staffers (like Marie) trying to keep it alive to score political points in a failing campaign. Nice try, but this is beyond yesterday's news.

Katie, who is defending Angeles? I have said from the beginning that he shouldn't have been there and that it looks bad for him to be involved in the confrontation. The only thing I have fought for is the protection of his due process rights, nothing more. If Quiring, Phillips, and Pandolfi are true patriots they should be standing up for Angeles' rights to a fair process, even if they believe he is guilty. Trial by media and terminating his employment without charges or criminal conviction (as HBJ has demanded) is not a fair process. What is so wrong about letting this guy have his day in court?

Gary, you are correct that Audra Stickland should accept some personal blame for the sequence of events. She was correct to suspend Angeles without pay for the poor judgment he used in being there in the first place. But she also needs to step forward in accepting some responsibility herself. But given the nature of politics I think that any statement from her would only put this story back in the papers, which is something she clearly wants to avoid. This is a mess she created for herself so she will have to find a way out. I have no sympathy for her predicament.

No court will get this case because Totten won't file the charges because the VCRCC will not let him.

If the poor judgment was being there in the first place and the campaign knew he was there then we should conclude the campaign has poor judgment.

Maybe the whole campaign should be suspended.

Let him have his day in court. I don't hear anyone denying him that right. But why is it Strickland staffers and other elected officials staff members getting themselves in trouble?

This isn't the type of thing any of us expect from Gallegly's staff!

You're right about something, Bubba, I wrote none of what you first attributed to me. I'm wondering if you even bothered to read what I wrote before you went off on me. You most likely read it afterward and thus the mea culpa.

I'm quite willing to let the law enforcement folks do their job. They can settle this once and for all and I will accept whatever the outcome is.

BTW, "Katie's conscience," I am only a volunteer for Hannah-Beth's campaign, one of hundreds. You can confirm this on the next campaign statements online.

And I'm very pleased with the progress her campaign is making.

I haven't weighed in on this yet, but no time like the present!

Here is a reality check for you. In these days of employees running amok or "going postal", most businesses and I think virtually every public employer have "zero tolerance" for acts of violence, and often for even a threat of violence.

I don't think "zero tolerance" is generally a good policy, but violent behavior would be a good place for it.

Aren't the Stricklands kind of "Law and Order" types? Guess not 'eh?

Bubba Kidd's flip flop on this thread is great.

Bubba Kids's flip:
"Hey nobody, I'd love to see you hire a defense attorney who has a philosophy of contacting your accusers and apologizing".

Bubba Kidd's flop:
"But she also needs to step forward in accepting some responsibility herself".

"Gary, you are correct that Audra Stickland should accept some personal blame for the sequence of events".

I would love to go up against you in court Bubba Kidd.

I think the only whacko on this thread is the one that thinks he's anonymous (ahem - this refers to you Mongo Gibson).

As Hannah Beth said in her press release, if one of her staffers did what Mr. Angeles did they would be fired on the spot.

Bubba Kidd, the photo in the paper alone is damning - the one with him holding an anti-Jackson sign. Couple this with the second article in which his elbowing of anti-tobacco money people is witnessed by the reporters? That's a PR nightmare. The criminal charges are just a logical extension of the process.

I'm sure he will get more than fair treatment by the Sheriff's Dept. and the DA's office if it gets that far but the damage is already done.

Trial by media isn't fair but always happens. Look at the Larry King killing. Should his 14 year old killer be tried as an adult?

Joel Angeles actions that day are festering already. Even if the charges are dropped, he is damaged goods.

Once again the irony of the Jackson group bending over backwards to try to invent political advantage out of this is inescapable.

It might serve everyone well to remember that the only two pieces of objective evidence, the video and newspaper picture, show the Strickland guy getting hit from behind, not the other way around.

Other than those you have a case of partisan against partisan, with the exception of the reporter, who said she didn't see everything.

It might be well for the Pandolfi/HBJ group to watch out for a countersuit.

@Fire Him
It is easy for HBJ to sit back and say what another person should do. Let me know the next time HBJ fires a member of her own staff on the command of Strickland. I also find it interesting that an attorney and former prosecutor has no problem firing a public employee without due process. Should we now begin firing teachers and police officers based on accusations, without due process, and without actual criminal charges or criminal conviction? That is apparently what you are advocating. As GS pointed out, Ventura County is not Russia, Zimbabwe or Pakistan.

@Katie
While this is somewhat of an embarassment for Strickland, it is far from the PR disaster that you claim. Other than die-hard political groupies, this story doesn't really have much traction, and I seriously doubt that it will affect voters in November. The story is already getting stale, which is why Pandolfi and friends have been so desperate to keep breathing life into something that 98 percent of the voters in this county already don't care about. The Star has already moved on, and if the DA chooses not to prosecute then all this side drama is officially DOA. Meanwhile, the HBJ loyalists can jump up and down and get as red-faced as they want, but it will be the equivalent of pissing into the wind.

Bubba Kidd, the story has a lot of traction amongst Republicans in Camarillo and Ventura. And Democrats and DTS are having a field day with it. It really doesn't matter what the DA does at this point.

Don't demonize the victims. It is bad form.

And yes, he should be fired. He knows better.

So Katie, how exactly am I demonizing the "victims"? It seems a bit presumptuous and patronizing for you to label one group of individuals as "victims" before the investigation has even been completed. I don't recall you being an eye witness to the event, so you don't have any more information about this incident that me. Gee, you are starting to sound more like a liberal every day.

Bubba Kidd, be a professional and save the ad hominen attacks. And no, I'm a Republican through and through as are some of the people who filed/witnessed the actions of Mr. Angeles. He needs to be fired. He is a political liability.

Give it up people, Bubba is Strickland's personal hand puppet and lapdog and he will never admit that the Strickland goon broke the law. When Tony calls, Bubba rolls over and licks himself and Tony pats him on the head and says "Good boy Bubba".

Katie is clearly becoming a liberal Democrat, as Bubba so astutely points out here. She is working to defeat Strickland, which is the same thing as supporting Jackson. What other conclusions can we reach?

She is quick to call other people wackos while continuing, in her classic shrill ranting fashion, to spout off at every opportunity on how the Stricklands are the devil and she-devil incarnate.

C'mon, Katie, everyone on ths blog has long ago figured out your motives. Joel is not going to get fired. This case is going to die on the vine. You're just going to continue to look more and more ridiculous and be further revealed for what you've become - a flaming liberal Democrat.

Seems to me Katie is one of the few Republicans posting on the Star's site lately who doesn't lie.

Maybe she is just working for a better class of Republicans than the low lifes that have run things in the past.

The Strickland/Osborn machine of deceit, manipulation, seedy campaign tactics, bullying, narrow-mindedness and illicit campaign contributions turns my stomach.

If Katie's brave enough to take you all on, good for her.

Katie calls 'em like she sees 'em. Maybe if she had been in San Diego, she might have pointed out to Duke Cunningham that he should resign instead of corrupting Congress and everyone around him. Apparently there wasn't anyone near him without blinders on and now he is in prison. We are lucky in Ventura County to have someone with integrity watching the Republicans.

Thanks for being heard, Katie. Gibson and the gopher never have anything new to say so your comments are a breath of fresh air.

The gopher is remaining neutral, but doesn't know that there are three victims? Victims that called 911, filed police reports and requested a criminal investigation? Victims who didn't have
Mr. Angeles arrested because they didn't know if he committed a crime. Victims who aren't lawyers and haven't called 911 in their lives before this incident. Victims who have only asked that an investigation be conducted and forwarded to the District Attorney. Victims who are supported by eleven witness statements, signed under penalty of perjury, by eleven people, the vaste majority who had never met any of the victims previously.

But then again, surely the gopher would know who is a victim. Surely the gopher believes in the judicial system. And surely the gopher knows that Audra Strickland punished Mr. Angeles with suspension because he "showed poor judgment in going to the rally". The question remains, however, why Audra Strickland didn't suspend her other staff members who were present at the rally and standing immediately behind Mr. Angeles in the published photographs. Could it be because only Mr. Angeles was singled out by the victims and the press? If so, then Audra Strickland is a phony as many have alleged previously. But then again, the gopher would know if this is true or not. Wouldn't it?

Katie, I think you need a refresher in the term ad hominem. An ad hominem fallacy consists of asserting that an argument is wrong solely on the basis of something discreditable about the person making the argument or the persons cited by him, rather than addressing the soundness of the argument itself.

Putting this into practice we can look at our recent exchange:

#1) Katie argued that Angeles should be fired on the basis of accusations against him and photos that were published in the paper. Katie stated, “He should have been fired the day the photos appeared in the paper�.

#2) I responded by pointing out that terminating a public employee prior to the completion of an investigation, and without criminal charges or a criminal conviction would be a violation of his due process rights. Voter also added a comment that the photo in the newspaper actually shows Angeles gitting hit from behind, not the other way around.

#3) Katie responds by critisizing me for allegedly demonizing the victims, though she doesn’t provide any specifics facts to support that accusation. Interestingly enough, she also complains about alleged ad hominem attacks against her. She then repeats her original demand that Angeles be fired, but still without addressing the argument concerning due process.

What is clear here is that Katie is, at the very least, as guilty as anyone of ad hominem attacks, since she continually chooses to attack the messenger instead of the argument. There is no attempt on her part to address the serious issue about Angeles’ due process rights, or even if it would be legal for Strickland to terminate an employee on the basis of a photo published in a newspaper. She just skips right over those inconvenient little facts.

To be fair Katie, I think that all of us are guilty to some degree of using ad hominem attacks from time-to-time on these blogs, myself included. But it is silly for you to complain about others using ad hominem attacks while you are simultaneously engaged in them. If you want to be taken seriously then you need to do better than that.

BK, does Rocky know you spend time on city computers blogging during working hours?

Gopher defends Ms. Strickland for suspending
Mr. Angeles. Ms. Strickland has claimed that
Mr. Angeles was on vacation the day of the protest. Gopher points out Labor Code laws in its discussion of termination, but fails to explain how Mr. Angeles was suspended for something he did while on vacation. Since the incident, if proven, does not allege moral turpitude and has so far been classified as misdemeanors, one has to question the legal grounds for the suspension. I'm sure gopher has evaluated this area of the law, since it is on top of just about everything (at least in its little mind, when working in a dark cave, deep underground.

Rocky is about to learn.

City computers? Wrong again.

Hey folks, don't forget what happened at the end of the movie Caddyshack, the gopher emerges unharmed dancing to the tune of Kenny Loggins' "I'm all right" Good luck with your diobolical plans. hee hee

Go back to school BK

Websters:

appealing to a person's feelings or prejudices rather than his intellect; marked by an attack on an opponent's character rather than by an answer to his contentions.

Joel Angeles will get his due legal process under the law (jail time, charges dropped, etc). He should still by fired by Audra - independent of what the Sheriff/DA dept. decides. He is damaged goods in an areana where perception is everything.

My tax dollars are being used to allow Bubba Kidd to promote his personal political views while he is supposed to be working for the city!!? If Bubba Kidd is engaging in this illegal activity what else is he doing to victimize the citizens?

If this is an example of the management style of the city we have a big problem... Something must be done immediately..

So Katie, are you saying that Angeles has no due process rights as an employee? Not even as a public employee? So then you must believe that a teacher or police officer who faces an accusation can be terminated immediately, prior to the conclusion of any investigation, prior to the filing any criminal charges, and without affording them the opportunity to confront their accusers. Is that true?

I have to say, there is incredible irony in having a republican like Katie argue against the due process and employment rights of an individual, while being joined in a chorus of support from a group of far-left liberals.

The mere fact that a taxpayer-paid senior staff member was out on a public sidewalk holding an anti-Jackson sign and mixing it up with protesters is indisputable. That alone would cause nearly anyone with any sense in politics to fire their staff member UNLESS that particular employee was directed by his boss or his boss's husband to do exactly what he was doing.

Let's do the right thing and fire the whole crooked lot of them at the polls in November.

Sticks and stones my friend. Oh, and don't forget that cockroaches are extremely resilient and can adapt readily to changing environments, much like the Caddyshack gopher. Chances are pretty good that cockroaches will be around long after humans have gone the way of the dodo bird. And there is an even better chance that the average cockroach has more to contribute to humanity than you.

Katie and Marie are two of the most dedicated women in local politics I've had the pleasure to meet. Both are, or were, moderate Republicans who recognize that the Strickland machine has got to end. It takes a real hunk of a man to attack these two women; especially when hiding behind a fake name.

Keep it up Katie and Marie. The machine is running out of fuel and getting scared.

Katie's says the damage is done.

I say it's done when the law has been applied and justice has taken place. The community needs to feel like they can exercise their civil rights without fear. The community needs to be made whole again.

A message needs to be sent to those who choose to use violence to intimidate citizens from being Americans. Greg Totten and the rest of his lackeys at the Ventura County District Attorney's Office need to do the right thing on this one.

Let's let the system work. It is there for a reason and available to the community to use. I was at the demonstration where the assults took place. Audra Strickland's Chief of Staff was very agressive, loud, angry and out of order. There was a reporter there who filmed the whole event.
Reasonable people can disagree without resorting to behaving like the thugs Strickland's machine had on the street.
All this portends that they are very afraid that the new Democratic wave may wash them out of office.

Brian,

What's with all the deletes? Just as it was getting good too...

Hopefully the cockroach wss put down. But then again, it may have just crawled into a crack in the wallboard and is going through recovery. Keep your spray handy. Katie and Marie, keep up the good work. The Strickland machine is busy trying to put out fires while the minions are crying foul.

Mongo Gibson, star football player once upon a time, you should be making friends so you can one day get elected to something instead of getting people mad at you because of your antics. Classmates.com has your number, so don't be surprised if the rest of the City does as well.

Yes, Gibson was all-world receiver at Bishop Amat back in the mid-70's, I believe. The guy caught everthing thrown to him within 10 yards and speed to burn (nicknamed "Bambi"). It's all covered in Classmates.com circa 1974. I remember his name in the paper every week because I went to one of Amat's rival schools at around the same time.

It's interesting how he got into politics later in life. You would have guessed something different.

And now he's catching flak as Mongo Flamo on a blog.

He prefers to be called "Mango Flaming". As for Bubba all I can do is laugh at the babble he writes, even cockroaches it seems are a higher form of life than Bubba. Perhaps he is the green scum that appears in the wash this time of year on the stagnant water.

Ahh, suck it, Mongo's Daddy!

Brian,
Please consider removing Mongo Flamo and Bubba Kidd from having the ability to comment on your site. I truly believe it would be in the best interests of your blog and society as a whole.

nobody, Mongo Gibson is on the ropes, now pound him. Left, right, left, right.

Mongo Gibson is down, the ref. is counting.

8 ... 9 ... 10. He is out.

Let's see him run for City Council again and just wait for all his psycho blogging as Mongo, et.al. to be brought out.

They will buy him a one way ticket to the booby hatch, as me pappy said.

Why, Nobody, because we're able to present solid, thoughtful arguments that differ sharply from your limited perspective on things? It's called "freedom of speech," dude. Deal with it.

Unlike our friend nobody, I'm not afraid of free speech, which means allowing others to express their ideas and opinions, even if they may disagree with my own. This request to ban other bloggers is coming from a guy who is so intolerant and abusive that the blog moderator routinely deletes his posts and has repeatedly put him on time-out for bad conduct. You do the math.

Both of them have bothered me from time to time but I don't think their comments on this blog either improve or detract from society as a whole. I am sure I have annoyed them too!

I appreciate the free flow of ideas from pretty much all of my readers.

From time to time a few readers will use abusive language or attack a person instead of their ideas but that is an exception. It might be the comments we remember though! I appreciate when people attack ideas instead of each other even when it isn't the easiest thing to do.

Thanks for reading and commenting on my blog.

Amen, Brian. Mongo & Bubba have just as much right to be on this blog as some of these other characters who love to spew vitriol under the guise of expressing their views (Katie Teague & Mongo's/Bubba's Daddy come readily to mind). Nobody & CAP-812 are out of control with their comments sometimes too.

Speaking of CAP-812 (Gary), I had to laugh at his comments about Mongo Gibson being down for the count if he decides to run for City Council again. Like the 5 people who post regularly on this blog are going to change the results of an election (yeah, right).

I'm sure Brian would agree that the people who hang out on this blog are really the hard core political junkie-types. The rest of the world out there doesn't really care. People who vote in local elections certainly don't use the Dennert blog as their barometer on who to vote for.

Pretty funny though.

Good point.

If this blog were representative of the VC electorate Dantona would be a Supervisor.

Don't underestimate the power of the blogs, Minions. Mongo has been outed and his words will be of interest to the public when he makes his next move to represent the public. I have no interest in being on a City Council, but Mongo does. If you think Ventura residents will elect a person who blogs like a nut under a multitude of fake names, you deserve to be his minion.

....and if the VCRCC was representative of Ventura County Judy Mikels would be the county supervisor working with Mike Gibson as city council member in Ventura and Raymond Cruz on the Simi Valley School Board.

But they abandoned their candidates!

They didn't abandon their candidates. The VCRCC endorsed Mike Gibson for Ventura City Council. Mikels had some problems of her own making and the VCRCC ending up endorsing another Republican, Peter Foy (who won).

That happens. Choices are made in politics all the time.

Just what were Mikel's problems of her own making that led her party to abandon her? Strickland endorsed Dantona, a Democrat, against Mikels. What did Mikels do for Strickland to endorse a Democrat? Only after Bob Larkin raised hell in Sacto did Strickland pull his support for Dantona.

Now the moderate Reps. are endorsing a Democrat over Strickland. What did Strickland do to deserve this treatment from his own party? What he did was to wage political war against moderate Republicans to advance the social agenda of the right wing. It was his choice to make and now he is going to pay the piper.

CAP-812,

Blogs are a joke, let's face it. I peruse them occasionally and post every once in a while.

But most people recognize them for what they are. They're usually a forum for people to rant and rave, using fake names, so they can blow off as much steam as they desire.

Anyone can say they're anyone, or accuse others of being who they think (or hope) they are. But, they pretty much have zero credibility in the real world. No one is going to take accusations that appear on a blog seriously in a political campaign, at least those who have half a brain.

Mikels voted for Jeff Gorrell when he ran against Audra for the Assembly. That's why Tony Strickland and the VCRCC turned against her.

That issue of her legal residency also came up during the campaign, as I recall. Seems she was spending more time in Arizona than in her supervisorial district.

CAP-812,
The people who want to do research on their local candidates before voting will use the Internet. The ones that take the time to do research will take the time to vote.

Thinking the Democrats would pass the Republicans in registered voters was once a joke to. It's still funny but the punch line sure is different.

Blogs are a joke?

Why not put your real name behind that thought?

I agree that swaying voters online is difficult but organizing events is not. The activists that will help raise money, walk precincts, make calls, and put up signs almost all read about politics online.

If I remember correctly the VCRCC endorsed Gibson and didn't do much else for him. Did they send member communications or help him raise money?

Lou Cunningham and Mike Gibson were both Republicans running for City Council and were both endorsed by the VCRCC.

Before any endorsements, there was much talk by certain parties that $10Ks would be spent on this race by the VCRCC but nothing came of it.

Katie,

You claim to have all this inside information, but aren't you the one being cast as the disgruntled ex-VCRCC member? Not sure there is much credibility in what you say on the blog.

Ron,

Is what she said wrong? I remember hearing very similar things from other people. I know you have some axe to grind with her but is what she said inaccurate at all?

Katie isn't cast as a disgruntled ex-VCRCC member to anyone. She is a loyal republican who joined her local republican committee and worked hard and contributed. It the VCRCC's lack of ability to hold on to people like her that led to the downfall. She left because she realized that the VCRCC was a group of republican power brokers simply interested in lobbying for the money and giving it to each other.

The D.A.'s office will not pursue justice in this case. First Greg Totten is on the VCRCC. Another problem is I believe Joel Angeles was told by Mitt's secret service to control the protesters.

Katie isn't cast as a disgruntled ex-VCRCC member to anyone. She is a loyal republican who joined her local republican committee and worked hard and contributed. It's the VCRCC's lack of ability to hold on to people like her that led to their downfall. She left because she realized that the VCRCC was a group of republican power brokers simply interested in lobbying for the money and giving it to each other.

The D.A.'s office will not pursue justice in this case. First Greg Totten is on the VCRCC. Another problem is I believe Joel Angeles was told by Mitt's secret service to control the protesters.