This could be the first convention I know of in American history that sees the VP nod withdraw from the ticket, almost as the Pres nominee is making his acceptance speech.

GS, I think the fact that her daughter is going ahead with the pregnancy will be a visual reminder of Palin's pro-Life stance, which is one of the reasons she was picked to begin with. McCain knew about it from the get go. So, I don't think there will be any withdrawl. If anything, there will be a solidification.

Only chink in the armour is that Palin supports an abstenince only education platform in the classroom and clearly that isn't working too well. The alcohol/underage photos aren't real great either but the children of candidates are off-limits.

Strong family values? You teach your kids to maintain those values. Beautiful Mom just left one thing out. You don't whore yourself around the school campus when you are 16. Not if you have strong values. But then again, 'ol Pop liked to drink and drive and Mom has a habit of violating ethics and labor laws. But heck, that is the beauty of being born again. Everyone can make mistakes. After all, the American people forgot about Dick's four DUI's and George's cocaine and alchohol abuse.

Yep, this babe has strong family values as does the stray dog that I picked up at the pound.

Katie,

I know that Obama has refused to talk about Bristol Palin and her upcoming shotgun marriage, but why should the average American consider that topic off-limits? Frankly, the media would be remiss if they didn't pursue this and other family-related time bombs that keep blowing up in the Republicans' faces. After all, Bristol's pregnancy clearly shows how flawed "abstinence-only" sex education is, and how hypocritical Palin is to try to push it on other American women. It's the mother's decision to keep her child, I respect that, but it is not her right to deny my children options to prevent the same terrible situation. But then the national Republican party is increasingly unable to see their own hypocrisy. Is it pro-family to saddle your teenager with a child, thereby making it even more unlikely that the teenager will get to college, and enter this wonderful unfettered free market we have? Yeah, right.

The fact is that the Palin family is the perfect example of a family that loves to live off the public dole. Consider that Miss Wasilla, if she gets to move into Cheney's current domicile, will have pulled off a major perk.....getting the American taxpayer to cover her and her daughter's significant child-care bills for the next 4, possibly 8, years, and even longer. Joe Sixpack can't get federal funds to help him with his Down's syndrome baby. But you can bet I and my fellow Americans will be forking the money over to pay for Trigg Palin's very expensive occupational therapy and round the clock nursing care while Sarah is sitting in the Senate, reigning from on high and Todd is entering some snowmobile race somewhere. Is that conservative public policy? A move toward smaller, more responsible government? Not in my book. No way, no how, no McCain/Palin.

CAP-956,

Don't forget about your man, Billy Boy, out there boffing young interns and anything else he could get his hands on. When you speak of family values, you need to look at the Democrat Party's long list of offenses as well...

Word out of St. Paul is that the GOP Convention is a bust! The California delegation is housed 15 miles away and delegates are all complaining how things close at 8pm and they roll up the sidewalks. It also turns out that the only research the McCain camp did on Palin was through Google searches! McCain has now had to send an army of lawyers to Alaska to get ready for the next bombshell because reporters are now in Alaska looking for the real background of Palin. We also found out that the father of Palin's daughters baby is a 17 year old who on his Myspace page calls himself "A Fu**in redneck who will kick ass if annoyed by anyone" and "I don't want no kids". The kid also has an arrest record. I wonder if he was arrested by the State Trooper Palin tried to fire for divorcing her sister? Also they say the GOP convention is reeling from all the no shows like Arnold, heck, even Bush isn't going, but I don't think he was invited! It will be intereseting to see if John McBush tells Palin to shove off and then replaces her with Romney. The only good news for McCain is that after getting Palin the oil companies cut him a check for 10 million for putting their girl on the ticket.

One more reason to love our man Mickey Jones. He was quoted yesterday in the LA Times saying that he would not be attending any parties given by the special interest groups.

Go Mickey!

Hey Clinton,

Point is, Dems don't go around preaching family values from the pulpit while committing sins. You've never heard me get all saintly about Clinton. Infidelity is perpetual, and highly represented in arrogant politicians, but it didn't seem to hamper FDR's leadership and diplomacy skills, and the same can be said about Clinton, Kennedy, etc. Our prudishness about "between the sheets" activity is a constant source of bemusement to Europeans and others......we get all atwitter about the dumbest stuff while ignoring the big issues.

Frankly, I don't care that McCain is as big an adulterer as any other politician--I only care that he lies to the American public, talking about his straight-talk, moral, ethical stance on "family values." That's total BS. He's an out of touch panderer with a campaign full of lobbyists.

Grumpy McSame = Miss Wasilla is One Skin Cancer Away from the WH

Obama/Biden '08

Katie,

Palin's daughter is not an issue for me. But Palin herself could be looking at obstruction of justice charges very soon as she gave misleading testimony to investigators looking into TrooperGate. She also can not swear to her oath of office because she's a member of a secessionist organization. She's lied about her Bridge To Nowhere support/opposition (depending on who's asking).

There's a good chance that she may spark a floor fight when nominated tomorrow night and that a stronger GOP candidate, with backing, may set the stage for her replacement.

GS. I agree that the daughter should not be an issue, but I do think there is an issue when McCain and Palin say, "We wanted to keep it a secret until after the election." They are the one's who released the story to prove the story about Palin's youngest daughter being the mother of Palin's youngest was not true. In other words, Palin and McCain have made this an issue. Why did they just not ignore it? What do you think GS about the news today that most of the research McCain's people did on Palin was via Google searches? I also had to laugh when Cindy McCain said Palin was qualified to be Commander and Chief because her son would be going to Iraq. That is like someone saying their son is a brain surgeon, therefore they are qualified to also be a brain surgeon as if being related to someone means by osmosis you know what they know.

Got_Hope,

Yeah, you sure got that one right. The Clintons and the Dems don't go around preaching family values (or any other values, for that matter) because it's obvious they've got none.

Not sure why you're basing your comments on what the Europeans think. Who cares what they think? We're not electing a European President. We're electing an American President.

Palin is as phony as Phony Tony. It must be a virus transmitted through the right wing's water supply. Daughter is whoring around, Pop is a drunk, Mom is a tart breaking laws in public office and McCain is too senile and scared of Limbaugh that he can't see right from wrong.

The toilet is flushing and McCain and bimbo are going down the drain. Phony Tony is swirling right after them along with little Audra hanging on to the bowl's walls.

I can sip a beer and hear the sound of
W O O S H!

Sorry but Palin's daughter is an issue.

Sara Palin is against sex education in the schools.

Sara Palin thinks parents can educate their children about sex.

Her daughter got pregnant by a redneck.
She failed as a Mother and I America doesn't need another failure in the Whitehouse.

I have a question for the readers. Do you think any of our current Board of Supervisors are qualified to become VP?

Our County has roughly the same population as Alaska and it is not segregated and out of touch with Americans.

Our County has to work with other Counties and Government agencies throughout the entire state of CA.

Being a mayor for a small town of 6500 people is not very challenging, being a City Manager would make you more qualified, anyone can be elected to Mayor/City Council as long as you are 18.

I think you can reasonably compare the qualifications of Palin to those of a Freshman County Supervisor, If I was to compare say, Peter Foy to Palin I would say he is more qualified than Palin with his business experience, and he was a Boy Scout Dad also.

Palin was basically in the right place at the right time and became elected because of a scandal that opened the door to let her in.

I personally am insulted that the Republican's are actually taking Palin serious. Women will not fall for this stunt, liberal and conservative. Conservative women who stay home with their children and home school will wonder where Palin's priorities lie and liberal women will not respect her pro-life positions. Women will look extremely close at her qualifications, they don't want the first female VP to make a mockery of women.

Smooth move on Palin's part to make sure that her entire family is well taken care of for life, I can't blame her for that, yup, yup.

I feel sorry for her newborn baby with Down's Syndrome having his infancy taken away from him while his mom campaign's and drags him around the country. No time for bonding in the Palin household/which is a tour bus presently. Many children with Down's syndrome have heart problems, sensory issues, and need multiple therapies, this can compromise the immune system with all the traveling he will be subjected to every virus out there. I don't consider it family values to make the child take a back seat to Mom's ambitions. Now Mom is having her oldest daughter , pregnant care for her child while she does photo op's. Palin would do better to have someone care for him at his home for the next two months.

I read where Palin was in TX doing a speech during her eigth month of pregnancy, her water broke and she called her Dr. who told her to get OFF her FEET and go to the hospital. She went on to give her Keynote Speech and was having contractions while she spoke. Then against Dr's orders she boarded the jet to go back to Alaska while she was in labor and the child with disabilities was being born one month early. She put the life of her child at risk to give a speech and fly home rather than give birth in Texas. That is not respecting the sanctity of life that is very much risking the life of her child that she professes to have unconditional love for.

A woman with such poor judgement does not have my vote.

A woman with so little qualifications certainly does not have my vote.

A woman or man that drags their pregnant teenage daughter through public scrutiny while they run for VP does not have my vote.

I was leaning towards McCain but was undecided until he made his VP choice, I am an independent/moderate voter.

I will now vote for Obama/Biden.

Judging by everyone’s comments here I think it’s safe to say that we were all right! Mickey Jones would have been a better choice for McCain. Has a nominee ever changed their mind about the VP selection?
Maybe we should start circulating the petitions to get McCain to wise up and name Mickey Jones as the VP.

M
I
C… See you real soon VP spot!
K
E
Y … Why because Mickey’s the best man for the job!

J.O.N.E.S!

Here's an excerpt from an email from an Alaskan talking about the Trooper issue:
"The current flap which has cost her a ten point loss of popularity (she's still 82%!) was over firing a popular Commissioner of Public Safety who is responsible for our Alaska State Troopers. She fired him for no STATED reason which was her prerogative as the Gov. He served entirely at her option. She and her whole family had a bad, bad experience with a rogue Trooper who was married to Sara's sister. His name is Trooper Wooten. This dimwit Trooper had threatened Sara's father (death threat!), threatened Sara ("I'll get you too"), tasered his 12 year old stepson, drove drunk in his AST cruiser, got a pass by a fellow Trooper who stopped him for erratic driving a second time while in civvies and just a host of other things not yet released to the public. He got away with it and got another pass by the Commissioner's appointed AST Trooper Internal Affairs investigator with a tiny slap on the wrist. Five days off without pay to be exact!!

This maverick Trooper is still on the payroll but only just. The Union intervening saved his malcontent ass. He'll yet get his I'm sure. Incredible heat is being heaped on the Troopers. Public heat, not the Governors office."

I can't wait for more details!

Clinton hater, the values of the democratic party match those of Jesus Christ. "Let ye amongst you who is without sin cast the first stone." You see Christ was always clear that judging people was only to be done by God. The republicans want to judge everyone and force everyone to do what they believe, in other words, they want to play God. But Christ made it clear that only God can judge. That is why the GOP and the Christian Coalition always quotes Old Testament because they are not following the words and teachings of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. In terms of the State Trooper you can now see that the GOP has launced a campaign to smear the state trooper, this proves that Palin and the GOP are cop haters.

It's telling to see the liberal smear machine in action. You would think that there would actually be a limit to the gutter politics practiced by some of the liberals around here, but attacking the minor child of a candidate and calling her a "whore" takes things to a whole new level. Those types of statements certainly say more about the accuser than the accused. Why is it that so many liberals around here have little problem making the most vile personal attacks imaginable against others? You should be ashamed.

Brian, do you think that these types of statements are appropriate, and do they accurately reflect the values of your party?

You know who would never say something like that?
Mickey Jones, that's who!

This is one day we agree, Bubba. Even Randi Rhodes on Air America Radio, the most strident liberal I know of, thinks kids are off limits in a campaign.

These bloggers are thinking with their canine teeth and not their hearts. Speaking as a mom of a teen-age daughter, I am offended by what I've read here.

But just last week I got bullied by one of our ultra-right wing bloggers for speaking out about protecting my child, so it goes both ways. I didn't hear you squawking then, Bubba, so your indignation seems to be rather partisan.

Honestly, I think Sara Palin's ambitions got in the way of her good sense as a mother. I would not even consider such a thing if I had a pregnant teen-age daughter and a new Down's syndrome baby of my own. Your family needs to come first. That's real family values.

Bubba you cry like a little baby! You are such a lousy hypocrite that you make me sick. You are constantly attacking people. You are a real fake and a phony. In terms of Palin's daughter I find it more hypocrisy because your overlord Dobson said that Palin would promote family values. If she cannot even teach her daughter family values how can she teach them to anyone else? Bubba and his republican buddies scream that gays should not be marrying and at the same time they defend their good friend Larry Craig's right to have toilet sex. The Christain Coalition of which Bubba belong's was out knocking on doors saying vote Yes to ban gay marriage, but when a U.S. airstrike killed 90 Pakistani women and babies they said nothing. I wonder what God finds worse, the GOP killing women and children or two people of the same sex getting married?

Brian, I agree comments with the word "whore" should be eliminated.

My heart and prayers goes out to Bristol, I hope she will receive the emotional and physical support that she will need to endure the public scrutiny and have a healthy pregnancy.

I question Sarah Palin's judgement for accepting the VP nomination when she knew how it would affect her daughter and the stress that could be affecting her unborn grandchild.

Palin is an admirable woman, I will not deny that, she stands firm in her convictions and is a fighter. It is a tough decision that an entire family should make together to run for such a public position.

Well, clearly, the Democrats running for Pres/VP have loads more morality and values than the Republican candidates, Clinton Basher, so obviously you don't know what you're talking about. Again.
And I didn't base my comments on what the Europeans think--you need to re-read what I said and see if you can follow the logic.

To those who feel Palin's family should not be discussed--I respectfully disagree. The stakes are too high, and the outcome is too important. The Republicans made "family values" a constant, in-your-face issue in politics for the last three decades. Now they want a time out? Sorry, no can do. If you can't walk the walk in your own life, stay out of mine. Don't preach to me about Clinton's infidelity and how that shows no morals or family values, and then offer up a man who shacked up with a beer heiress while leaving his injured wife in the hospital.

Despite the fact that Palin's little "abstinence only" talk with Bristol didn't work, she's going to continue to foist that policy on the rest of America's teens, with the same disastrous, family-destroying results. McCain was quoted as backing that policy in the media today. Where are all of these teens going to be able to find work to support their infants? Taco Bell? Hmm, not a living wage to be found there. The typical redneck in Alabama won't be able to raise his child in the VP mansion, feeding it formula prepared by a chef (paid for by the taxpayers) the way Miss Palin will.

The Republicans want this election to be an emotional decision, made from the gut. That's why they picked Palin in the first place! McCain's campaign manager said today this campaign is not about the issues, so what does that leave us to discuss? Republicans in 2004 weren't interested in debating failed Bush policy, they were only interested in re-electing a man that looked like a good guy to have a beer with. McCain is backing out of interviews on CNN because reporters are actually doing their job--asking questions about Palin's qualifications, etc. The Republican machine attacks every Democratic candidate--making stuff up if they can't find it by breaking laws to get into people's records. Now they call uncle when the focus is on them? Cry me a river.

Marie, the attacks against you by a right-wing blogger were directed at you, not at your children. You were the one who brought your children into the discussion by repeatedly bringing up the pesticide issue. I'm not condoning the attacks, but I did not participate in them or in any way contribute to the discussion. However I don't think it is fair for you to imply that I would condone or ignore personal attacks directed against your children for partisan reasons.

Although attacks on this blog certainly come from both sides it does seem that the vast majority come from the left. But calling the minor daughter of a political candidate a whore is simply over the line. I can't imagine a conservative saying such a thing around here without being universally condemned. I will give you credit for at least speaking out against that type of gutter attack against a child. Anyone who would say or condone such a statement is a coward.

The Obama smear machine has decided to go after Sarah's children and Husband. Instead of playing the victim card like the Hillary idiots did, Republicans should strike back harder and nastier.

Sarah the Barracuda has yet to unleash the pit bull typical of a mother of five.

Take'em down Sarah!!!

Get over it Gopher. The comment about her daughter whoring around is meant to draw attention to Palin's politics. She is pushing her neocon views on society when her own home is in chaos. That is what I refer to as a Phony. She should make sure her own family is in order before blowing her horn about her high and mighty family values. She is no different from Gingrich or the gay Congressman playing games in the airport bathroom. Palin is a phony as is Phony Tony. So get over it Gopher.

Bubba,

No and no.

But I also think the smears are coming from Republicans. Look at the above comment that says it is "the Obama smear machine". That is just trying to score political points on the topic.

Bubba, Sara Palin brought her family under the microscope by choosing to be McCain's running mate. I chose to highlight my family's issues because I was grateful to Hannah-Beth for helping us.

No family's problems should be fair game for ridicule in politics. I stand by that. "Chicago Way": Obama said much the same thing.

You only pop on here in moral indignation when it suits you, Bubba, but then we are all guilty of that to some degree. I see far more attacks here coming from the right. Our virulent CAP is a Republican and so is Mongo (and all his screen names.)

America doesn't need Sarah Palin as much as her pregnant teenage daughter and alcoholic husband needs her. A good Mother would take inventory of her family and say; "Maybe now isn't a good time". You don't drag your sexually abused teenage daughter through the media mud.

If Sarah Palin thinks everything is perfect at home what does she have in store for us.

Did anyone see Fred Thompson's speech at the convention tonight? Wow!!! He really set the record straight on Obama and presented an extremely convincing argument why John McCain should be our next president.

Go McCain!!!

Marie, CAP only registered as a republican so he can write letters to the editor masquerading as a conservative while espousing his leftist ideology. I also don't comment on most attacks on these blogs, otherwise I would be posting every ten minutes. But when something is over-the-top I will speak out. Sara Palin has every right to discuss her family in public just as you do, but that does not make your daughters fair game to be called whores.

Brian, I can't imagine you tolerating posts from a regular conservative calling the child of a political candidate a whore without calling them out. Yet you seem to tolerate it when it comes to some of your liberal friends. And when I point it out you say it is not OK, but then qualify your response by stating that republicans say bad things too. When conservatives on this blog misbehave I never see you excuse their behavior by stating that liberals do the same. Your response of "no and no" is a pretty muted reply. How disappointing.

Bubba Kidd,

You just used this story to attack me. That was my point.

I gave you clear and simple answer because it was a simple question. They don't reflect well on anyone.

Liberal friends? I don't even know most of the people here. I didn't read your question until I was home from my other job. I didn't call anyone out because I didn't see the comments before I saw the question from you.

Calling a young woman that we don't know names to make political points or using her for cheap political attacks is wrong regardless if it is done by people on the left or you.

If you were really concerned it would be much easier to email me so I could delete the worst trash such as name calling. Now, because you refused to do that in an attempt to attack me, I would need to not only delete the offending comment but delete the comments referring to the comment that use the same language.

That as been my same policy for years. I tell the candidates, staff members, and party leaders that same thing all the time.

My email address is briandennert @ yahoo.com. In the future please email me outrageous comments if you think they really cross the line.

But if you think they should stay so we can see the true thoughts of some people that makes sense to me too.

Poor little fat hypocrite Bubba Kidd can't silence someone... That's so sad... Poor little Republican scumbag. I feel so sorry for you.

Start a support group with Steve Frank. Call it Reality Anonymous.

Bubba,

I share your concerns with Brian's selective enforcement of his "name-calling" policy. I've experienced it myself on several occasions and have been both frustrated and disappointed in his response to my complaints.

It's come to the point for me that I don't even complain anymore, but just accept his approach as a reflection of his own biases coming through on his blog. It is his blog, after all, as he will not hesitate to remind you.

Don't waste your breath, Bubba. My experience is that it's pretty fruitless.

Oh stuff it Gopher Kidd. I've been a Republican for 40 years and almost always vote Republican. The fact is that the religious right drove me from voting Republican of late for just the reasons I've summarized about Palin hereinabove. Palin brought her family into the political spotlight and no one else. She brought up her strong family values. I've raised daughters and mine did have family values. They didn't get knocked up when in high school. The did recognize the importance of family, love of husband, education and planning for their futures. Palin fell short of teaching her daughter and Palin needs to suffer the consequences. She is either a failure as a mother or a phony with respect to her values. So stuff it Gopher Kidd.

Brian, I didn't ask you to delete the comments from CAP calling Palin's daughter a whore because I think they should remain for all to see. Please leave them because it reveals his true character. It is also revealing how few people have spoken out against it.

I also find it troubling that liberals on this blog have given a free pass to the sexist attacks directed at Palin on this blog. In this thread there are comments that she is a bad mother and unsuited for office by virtue of having young children, and in particular a disable child with downs syndrome. The same liberals who claim to champion women's rights want to disqualify a woman from higher office because she has young children and a handicapped child? Obama has young children, yet I have never heard anyone around here suggest that it is wrong for him to run for public office or subject his family to public scrutiny. Obama's children have been on talk shows and at the DNC convention. And yet the lefties around here tolerate the most vile types of sexist attacks possible against Palin without a word.

Brian, is it OK for liberals on your blog to use stereotypes and make sexist attacks? Once again I'm not asking for you to remove the offending post from "Qualifications" since I think it should remain for all to see.

It is plain wrong to call Palin's daughter a whore. Kids should be off limits to personal attacks for political gain. That said, Palin is the one who called a press conference to announce her minor daughter's pregnancy. Palin takes the blame for drawing attention to her daughter. And the reason Palin did that was to preempt some ugly rumors going around that Trig is NOT her child but her daughter's first child, from when she got pregnant at the age of 16. I'm assuming that's not true and Trig is Sarah Palin's child.

But Palin has been caught in one lie after another, from her avowed stand on Steven's Bridge To Nowhere to TrooperGate to her connections with Abramoff's lobby friends to her phony national defense credentials, etc etc. So reporters are zeroing in NOT because Palin's minor daughter is pregnant but that Sarah Palin may again be lying, about Trig being her child. If that's so, then Sarah Palin's craven use of her daughter's pregnancy as a pawn to deflect those reports is reprehensible. The truth will out, either way, and until then we should leave Palin's teen daughter out of the mud fight.

Bubba,
You don't really want Sarah Palin to be a heart beat away from being President? Especially a seventy five year old heartbeat. Be honest. Was she your first choice?

I would like to add that Obama's mother was 18 years old when she gave birth to him. I don't hear any liberals complaining about that.

It's too late to complain about it he's going to be President.

Barack Obama mentioned that his mother was young the other day when he condemned attacking families.

Telling teenagers it's o.k. to have babies right before college. That's attacking families. This is a National problem not just Sarah Palin's family. The problem is Sarah Palin is sending the message it's o.k.. It's not about the teenage victim.

Bubba, you never had any problem with people making sexist remarks about me, Marie, Katie and other women before. Now you're outraged?

But then...just when I thought I'd seen it all, we see a new side of Bubba...the feminist...defender of the faith. We women folk are so lucky to have you around.

Will you sing us a little song after you take charge & show us the error of our ways too?

I'll post a little video in your honor...you big lib.

Laura, I'm only here to keep you honest. If you repeatedly ignore sexist attacks made by your liberal colleagues then it is understandable when your own complaints about sexism ring hollow. After all, it is your party that claims to be the champions of equality and women's rights, and it is your party that continually accuses the other side of discrimination and sexism. Yet in practice it seems that sexism is alive and well among liberals, and even feminists when it is politically expedient. Someone states that Palin is not qualified for higher office by virtue of being a mother of young children and you don't say a word. My goodness. Whatever happened to bringing home the bacon and frying it up in a pan?

Nobodyopolous,

Yes, it's that kind of arrogance that's going to ensure a victory for McCain. Seems like Kerry's supporters were adopting a similar attitude about 4 years ago.

I don't think anyone said she wasn't qualified because she is a mother of young children. There are many other reasons why she is not qualified.

I am just critical of her for subjecting her daughter to this sort of public ridicule on a nationwide level. I really feel this girl's pain. I would not have done that.

And I think a newborn child with severe handicaps needs more attention from his mother right now. You can call me old-fashioned or whatever you want. If you have children, you need to be there for them. Nothing is more important.

It's not about sexism. It's about personal responsibility. Others may disagree with my viewpoint.

I dont think anyone has addressed the serious issue about Palin. She is a total MILF. She’s got that hot librarian thing going on. Makes me want to change the Van Halen lyrics to "Hot for Palin" derrr neerrr nerrr neerrr.

I dont think anyone has addressed the serious issue about Palin. She is a total MILF. She’s got that hot librarian thing going on. Makes me want to change the Van Halen lyrics to "Hot for Palin" derrr neerrr nerrr neerrr.

Marie,

When you state that a handicapped child needs attention from a mother you conveniently ignore the fact that Palin's children have both a mother and a father to care for them. Ignoring the role and contributions of fathers to their children is one of the worst forms of sexist stereotypes. Are democrats really going to argue with a straight face that women with young children should stay at home baking cookies instead of pursuing career opportunities or public service? I think you just sent the women's movement back 30 years with your last post.

BK, don't attack another woman. As LW pointed out, you have a history of being abusive to women and now you are attacking Marie.

Trig seems to be well loved and I am sure his family will all raise him - Mr. and Ms. Palin will probably not outlive him and I am sure they recognize the need to establish care for him.

The Palin pick is bringing out the worst of both parties.

I have a long history of being abusive to women? Do tell Katie. Please provide direct quotes from any of my posts over the years and cite some specific examples. Or do you prefer to do drive-by accusations of abuse without any real facts to back it up.

How interesting that when I challenge the statements of female bloggers I get accused of being "abusive to women". Yet liberal contributors around here can make incendiary statements against women, like stating that they are unqualified for public office by virtue of being mothers, or calling their daughters whores, and everyone seems OK with that.

So Katie, are you really going to play the victim card here every time someone disagrees with you?

Methinks BK dost protest too much.

BK - um - were we having a disagreement? I don't think so. So, no I wasn't playing the victim card.

Katie, I'm still waiting on some evidence to back up your statement that I have "a history of being abusive to women". If you are going to slander another person with such a claim you should be prepared to back it up, otherwise it displays and incredible lack of character.

Bubba,
It's my personal belief that, given a choice, mothers should be available for their children as much as they can when the children are very young, especially those with high needs. This I am very conservative about. I quit a good job to do just that and went back into the market when they were older. They are only that little for such a short time.

You can call it sexist, old-fashioned, retrograde, Taliban or whatever you want. It's how I feel. But I do realize some women have no choice in the matter because they need to help support their families financially.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. And please don't hang that liberal moniker on me because it doesn't fit very well for many reasons.

In Katie's defense, she may have been referring to when you were harassing me over my very accurate statement that Joel Angeles, Audra's chief of staff, knocked a protester -- a former minister -- down right in front of me. I didn't feel abused; harassed, yes.

Usually you're pretty good, but CAP seems to bring out the worst in you.

By the way, if you care, I saw Jack Philips at the Fair with his wife. He still can't lift his arm up that far. He plays the fiddle in a band, one of his great joys, and hasn't been able to play since he was knocked down.

BK - you have a history of being abusive - period. Look back in the September and October 2006 archives. You are AWFUL!!!

But purusing the achives did make me appreciate that virtually the only bloggers that use their real names are women! Barbra Williamson, Leslie Cornejo, Marie Lakin, Laura Winchester, Kate McDermott, me and I am sure there are some I missed

Marie, I have no problem with you making a choice to spend time at home with your children when they were young. That is a very honorable thing to do. That is a personal decision that many parents need to make. But some mothers also decide to continue with their careers, and many are able to find a balance that works for them. In some cases it involves sharing parenting responsibilities with a spouse, or getting help from extended family. But in every case it is an individual decision.

However I think it is unfair to label parents who stay in the workforce as somehow unfit or negligent toward their children. Especially when we don't apply the same standards toward men. Obama has young children, yet nobody accuses him of being an unfit parent because of his decision to run for president. JFK also had young children. It is a double-standard to say that a woman with young children should not pursue a career when it is OK for a man to do the same. At the very least it is inconsistent for democrats, who represent themselves as the champions of equality and women's rights, to attack Palin for choosing to be a mother and have a career. Nancy Pelosi has five children and was a Northern California party chairman when they were still very young, yet nobody accused her of being a negligent mother.

Is it possible to slander a pretend person?

How did this thread become a pro/con debate over working mothers?

For those who still think it's the Media attacking Palin's daughter for being pregnant, check out the photo ops McCain's team has set up with the I-don't-want-kids father of Bristol's baby. If that's NOT condoning and rewarding teen pregnancies in an attempt to exploit the moment....

When men can breastfeed, then I'll agree 100 percent with what you just wrote.

I never said she was negligent nor did I attack her. What I said was she made two choices I would not: outing her daughter's pregnancy on the national stage and leaving the care of a handicapped infant to somebody else. I just find it incongruous to say you're all about family values and then do that.

I'm not a very good Democrat, Bubba. You just haven't figured that out yet, I guess.

What about Mr. Palin? Is he not capable of helping Sarah with the care of the children? When he's not busy drinking and driving, I'm sure he can find some time to pitch in.

So much for being progressive Democrats supporting women's rights. As long as the women-folk work AND raise the kids it's OK. But ask the father to step in when the wife gets a chance to become Vice President - it's too much to ask?

Right-wingers only profess to be about family values on the outside. Phony Tony is a good example of that.

Marie, I never said that you attacked Palin. However there are others around here who have attacked her and accused her of being a bad mother because she chooses to run for public office. You are free to have your own opinions about motherhood and the responsibilities that come with it, and live your own life to those standards.

But what amazes me is how the same liberals who defend women's rights are so quick to use sexist stereotypes to bash a woman who happens to be a republican. The double-standard is off the charts. On this blog it is evident in this thread and others that some people get a free pass to make overtly sexist and homophobic statements if they happen to have similar political leanings.

Katie, you have damaged your own credibility with your unfounded accusations. Once again I ask that you provide specific quotes from any post that I have made that indicates that I have "a history of being abusive to women". I notice that you have now cleverly re-phrased your accusation to a more general claim that I have "a history of being abusive". Then again, on this blog I would say that 90% of the people around here are at least occasionally abusive toward others to some degree, so that is a rather generic statement. But your previous accusation was more specific in stating that my abuse has a pattern of being directed toward women. Such a claim has a very specific context and meaning, and goes far beyond just a general claim that somebody is occasionally ill-mannered. I want you to provide specifics that back up your earlier accusation, otherwise you should acknowledge that you fabricated the allegation. It also might help if you provide for us a definition of what you consider to be abusive behavior toward women, in the event that you consider that any disagreement your posts constitutes "abuse".

If you are going to play the harassment/abuse card then you should be prepared to back it up with some facts. I'm still waiting.

Bubba, I wouldn't fret too much over Katie. She's proven on numerous occasions that she has a profound lack of integrity. She loves to attack people on flawed grounds and then claim she has facts to support her allegations, but then never produces them.

She is simply on a personal vendetta to discredit certain people (people she disagrees with politically) and she won't let facts or reasonable discussion get in the way.

I figured her out a long time ago, but some people are just coming around on this. Good luck, but I wouldn't waste my brain cells on the likes of Katie.

I thought Sarah Palin probably gave the crappiest speech I have ever seen tonight. McCain's people spent the last 7/24 working with her and that was her best? She ain't ready for prime time! I also just heard that she tried to ban and burn books at a library in Alaska. And get ready because a major paper is about to break the story that Palin had an extra-marital affair with her husband's best friend! Also why is Palin addressing a convention of Alaskan's that hate the USA so much they want to leave the USA? Her husband belongs to this subversive group and as governor she told them they were doing great things. Why is the party of Lincoln now trying to put someone in the White House who backs the breaking apart of the Union that Lincoln gave his life for? The GOP has become truly disgusting!

For the record the only woman that has ever been bashed on this blog is Bubba Kidd! When you read his idiotic posts you have to laugh! He cries that some people on this blog are abusive. He is just like the GOP these days, they are the worst abusers and liars and the first ones to cry and point fingers that someone else is being abusive! Bubba is a fake and a coward who hides behind a fake name while attacking people like Katie who use their real name, Bubba also lives in fear that Jim Dantona will find out who he is and kick the living crap outa him. Stay under your rock cockroach Bubba!

No wonder Sarah Palin's husband is an alcoholic.

Bubba,

You're only here to keep me honest? My own personal board nanny. You know I expect you to wear your little red bow tie when you're keeping me in line.

I haven't said a word about Palin. Personally, I've been too busy laughing to bother. BTW, when was I made responsible for "my liberal colleagues"?

It's not my job to protect poor defenseless Sarah Palin from the big, bad Democratic blogging masses. Your party thinks she's qualified to be second in command, well then, you've got 60 days to convince the voting public. You guys want to run Annie Oakley meets Miss Congeniality, go right ahead. I would have gone for Whitman or Ridge, but they wouldn't have played well to the Rep base, and the Dems would have had a field day with Ridge and his color coded terror alerts.

As to your statement "Yet in practice it seems that sexism is alive and well among liberals, and even feminists when it is politically expedient."

Yeah, and your point is? Sexism is the last acceptable form of discrimination in this country. It's alive and well - it thrives in politics. I think any politician, from any party, if she is being truthful, will cop to that one. Reverse sexism is out there too.

As for your question: "Whatever happened to bringing home the bacon and frying it up in a pan?". Two words. Take out.

OK Laura, I guess you and Katie just want to have it both ways. That's fine I guess. Just don't expect anyone to take you seriously the next time you make one of your many complaints against others about sexism or alleged abusive behavior toward women. Personally, I think that allegations of sexism or abusive behavior toward women is a serious charge that shouldn't be made lightly, applied selectively, or used falsely to score political points. Applying standards selectively, or making allegations that are knowingly false is pretty reprehensible. But if sexism and reverse sexism is OK in your book then who am I to say otherwise? I guess politics supercedes principles for some, and they will use any tool at their disposal to win.

Thanks for clarifying your position.

BK - why don't you read the archives I sited? You abuse both men and women in your posts. Right now you are flapping and trying to convey you are rightiously indignant. It is hard to take you very seriously when your monikor is so ridiculous.

Getting the thread back on track - I wish McCain had picked Mitt Romney or a different woman (Condi Rice?). It is hard to get past the trailer-trash aspect of Palin that has emerged. But McCain/Palin it is and the countdown begins. I just hope I start seeing some collateral material in the county. So far, it is Obama, Obama, Obama....

Listening to her speech last night just confirmed what I have thought all along: her family needs her much more than her country does. Even my really conservative friends think she was a bad choice.

You know it's bad when Lindsey Graham is pumping up her foreign policy credentials by saying Alaska is closer to Russia than any other part of the U.S.

Katie, once again you have failed to provide any specific quotes that demonstrate your accusation that I have "a history of being abusive to women". As you know, stating something like that has a very specific context and meaning. There is a BIG difference between a person making harsh statements on a blog and the charge of exhibiting a pattern of abuse directed toward women. There are plenty of people around here who have made some pretty outrageous statements directed at people of both sexes, yet you seem to reserve your false allegations for people with whom you disagree politically. That is reprehensible and undermines instances of real harassment or abuse suffered by others.

Again, provide to all of us specific quotes that show that demonstrate your charge that I have "a history of being abusive to women". It is dishonest for you to now restate the accusation by now claiming that I am abusive toward everybody, because if that is the case then your accusations could be made against 90% of regular bloggers, including yourself. You made a very specific accusation, so either back it up or withdraw the statement. If you are willing to level a knowingly false allegation and let it stand then what does it say about your character and credibility?

So Marie,

What is your metric for deciding when a woman should be home raising the kids?

Katie, you'll have to wait until Dianne Alexander gets back from the GOP convention to get McCain signs. Her MO is to hoard them in her garage when they are delivered to the party, dole them out sparingly and try to get "donations" for every one she can. Then she doesn't declare the income and spends the "donations" on goodies for the campaign office and her friends. Isn't that illegal?

Bubba - you are being intelluctually lazy. I read the cited archives and they are filled with you being abusive. That appears to be your MO and you are being borderline abusive now. Katie has a sterling rep. I'll take her word over yours any day of the week. The mere fact she posts under a real name sets her apart from you.

Ron, I realize my opinions about families and child rearing are very conservative. The real question is why conservatives are pestering me about being conservative.

I'm just trying to understand if you feel Obama should stay home with his kids.

Once again we have Katie and her apologists failing to provide any specific example of my alleged "history of being abusive to women". Instead they we now have a deliberately evasive re-stating of the allegation with the use of some vague, undefined allegation of "abusive" behavior that could apply to almost anybody on this blog, including Katie herself. Interesting how she has now begun to conveniently omit portions of her original statement when she posts, so we are now treated to a more generic allegation of "abuse" instead of the original claim of a long history of abuse directed toward women. The re-statement is subtle, but the context and meaning are clearly different. Though I still find it remarkable that some liberal bloggers around here can call young women "whores", and are given a free pass by Katie and others. Yet she struggles to re-write history to support her ever weakening false allegations of abusive behavior that she levels at those who dare to disagree with her. It must be nice to use false allegations of abuse and harassment whenever it suits your political purposes, but I think that Katie has now been sufficiently exposed as a liar.

Ron,
Sarah Palin's husband is an alcoholic. He needs help taking care of the kids.

Sarah Palin is more qualified to be President than Mr. Half-Term Senator/Community Organizer Barack Obama (who has zero executive level experience).

Sarah Palin is the governor of a state and was mayor of a city (lots of executive level experience).

Oh, by the way, Obama is running for President and Palin is not!

Don't miss next weeks National Enquirer folks, they will have a front page story on how Sarah Palin is having an affair with her husbands business partner, this is the same reporter who broke the story on Edwards. McCain and his thugs are saying they will sue, but the National Enquirer has only been successfully sued one time! I wonder if Palin's husband is the father or not of her 5th child or if it is the guy she has been sleeping with? Also you had to love Rudy last night saying he defends women, this is the guy who threw his wife and kids into the street so he could move in his mistress. Where exactly are these family values the GOP always talks about?!

M Fisher,

Are you a writer for the National Inquirer, or something? One could easily conclude this with your half-baked, scurrilous, gossip-over-the-fence with the neighbor, brilliance. One could accurately conclude it's your favorite source of information. Typical uninformed, shoot-from-the-hip, liberal Democrat

Is THIS an example of attacking a candidate's child?

You are right that Palin is top notch, according to the husband's fried that Palin was having an affair with she has some special talents she performed on him. The National Inquirer was right about Edwards and they are right about Palin. How is it democrats fault that Palin has been sleeping with her husband's friend? Isn't that her fault? Don't republicans believe in taking personal responsibility anymore?

The only qualification John McCain thinks his Vice President needs is CPR training.
We need integrity in Office. We need someone who follows the rules. Is that John McCain's choice for Vice President? I don't think so.

John McCain wants to die with his boots on. Let it be in the Senate. Whatever skills John McCain may have is not worth the risk of having Sarah Palin as President.

It's like a chess game try and think a few moves ahead.