How come none of protesters have decided to protest in front of African American churches? 70% of African Americans voted for prop 8 putting it over the top in the state.

How come no protest?

Resources to find out who donated to the yes on 8 campaign:

http://tinyurl.com/6qs7ez
http://www.californiansagainsthate.com/
http://mormonsfor8.com/

A pharmacy in Simi Valley donated over $20k.
The President of the corporation (WKS Restaurant) that owns El Pollo Loco, Denny's and Corner Bakery donated $6k.

Good point. Why are Mormons being singled out when African American voters overwhelmingly voted against same sex marriage?

And where is the criticism of Obama for not taking a stronger position on Prop 8? During the campaign he seemed to be playing both sides by saying that he was personally opposed to same sex marriage, yet at the same time he called Prop 8 "divisive" and "discriminatory". Talk about a mixed message. Obama even appeared on Ellen DeGeneres' talk show a month before the election, yet in spite of her high visibility in the fight against Prop 8 she, curiously, never asked Obama a single question about the initiative or asked him to clarify his position on gay marriage.

Those that have opposed Prop 8 have likened it to the civil rights movement. Yet the same groups seem be be giving our newly elected "post-racial" president and the black community a free pass on this issue, while simultaneously venting incredible amounts of anger against groups that better fit their carefully constructed stereotypes of bigots and homophobes.

I want to hear all these bloggers who've been quick to say Mormons are bigots head over to First AME in LA and start calling the churchgoers bigots this Sunday.

I guess it wouldn't look right on TV to protest African American churches, which is why they've conveniently ignored this fact.

Bill can you tell me if any African American Churches put out the support for prop 8 that the mormon church did?
If 70% of African American voters supported prop 8 how many of these were representatives of their church?

Conrad

Are African Americans hateful bigots because they supported prop 8?

Somehow all of you missed the difference between voting and supporting the measure. When they talk about supporting the measure they mean sending people door to door, making phone calls, and raising record sums of money.

If you have some evidence that African-American churches were leaders in doing any of this, feel free to post it. Until then the rest of us know that the LDS church was the church that raised the most amount of money for deceptive ads, including an ad that distorted the viewpoints of national politicians.

Conrad & JD

Are African Americans hateful bigots because they supported prop 8?

Okay, here is the deal:

A...anyone who supported prop 8, and voted yes, on some level believes in discrimination, because in their eyes, they can have marriage, and gays cannot. That is promoting inequality and thus, is discrimination. Regardless of race, religion, creed, gender, status,...bottom line, if you think you should have a right, but other people different from you should not have the same right you have...it is discrimination.

B...The Mormon Church donated MILLIONS to a campaign that wasn't even located in its home state!! I think their main motivation was to turn the eyes of the world away from them and put it on the gays. The Mormon Church has been a joke in this country for YEARS...and yet here was their opportunity to turn the scrutiny away from them...and onto others...They basically BOUGHT credibility from 52% of Californians. They lied through their teeth in those ads just to get the FAR TOO MANY California residents who refuse to self educate and just take what they see at face value, to vote yes. Its ridiculous. They said things about Education, that was proved incorrect by not only teachers, but the California Board of Education!!! The people who RUN THIS STATES EDUCATION SYSTEM...SAID THAT PROP 8 IS LYING. Every lie they came up with was proven a lie by professionals...and yet, because people are too simple to face facts, they kept on with their bandwagon. Anyone who actually read the proposition would see it did not effect schools, churches, or freedoms of any sort...except of course, the freedom to get a legally recognized marriage in this state.
When they said "protect the sanctity of marriage" ok nevermind that divorce and infidelity and sex before marriage and all the other sins that destroy the sanctity of marriage that are performed by heterosexuals...lets over look that because its too obvious...

Here is a free lesson on vocabulary: MARRIAGE... is not a religion union.
You can Marry two companies, two metals...by definition, a marriage is the bonding or union of two ENTITIES.

MATRIMONY is a religious union. Here is a news flash for the ignorant masses... THE GAYS DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR RELIGIOUS MATRIMONY. THEY WANT NO PART OF IT. No one is forcing the churches to do diddly squat!!! This was a legal battle for basic civil rights, but like so many other instances, the religious nut jobs of the world decided to use their religions to justify discrimination.
Since when is it acceptable to pick and choose which parts of your religion to live by and to ignore others? How many people don't eat meat on fridays? How many Jews eat pork from time to time? I personally know many mormons who drink soda, have premarital sex, smoke, drink, and party it up! Yet, THEY are allowed...but gays can't have a legal marriage in California?

It's classic bigotry and plain and simply put..DISCRIMINATION.

As a final thought, Proposition 8 and the people who founded, funded, and supported Prop 8...are a group of people who wish to deny the rights of another group of people, because they live a different lifestyle. There was another group of people who accomplished the same goal...maybe you have heard of them...they were called NAZI'S. What's next California? Gay Concentration Camps? Public Gay Burnings? You gonna invade San Francisco and wipe them all out? You people sicken me.

But god loves you...yeah, you keep telling yourself that.

I have a follow-up comment on this issue. Proponents of gay marriage are claiming that this is a civil rights issue, and have stated that discrimination against gay marriage is no different than past laws that banned interracial marriage.

Now imagine if somebody like, say, John McCain stated that while he was opposed to laws banning interracial marriage but was, at the same time, personally opposed to interracial marriage. I have no doubt that such a statement would be met with outrage and he would be labelled as a bigot and a racist.

So if same sex marriage is indeed a civil right, where is the outrage against Obama for stating that, while he is opposed to laws banning same sex marriage, he is personally opposed to same sex marriage. If this is indeed a basic civil right that is no different than allowing interracial marriage, then, by your own logic, wouldn't Obama's personal opposition to gay marriage also make him a bigot and a homophobe? And if those that voted for Prop 8 are hateful bigots, wouldn't that also mean by extention that, along with Mormons, 70% of the African American community are also hateful bigots?

Brian, you have critsized our governor in this thread for not speaking out strongly enough against Prop 8 BEFORE the election, and for not offering to appear in commercials against the inititative. By your reasoning, isn't Obama then equally guilty for not taking a strong stand against this initiative BEFORE the election? He certainly could have offered to appear in commercials opposing Prop 8, as he was probably in the best position to actually impact the outcome of the initiative. If this is indeed a fight over basic civil rights shouldn't he have shown more courage and leadership on the issue?

Here is my favorite part of this last comment?

"What's next California? Gay Concentration Camps? Public Gay Burnings? You gonna invade San Francisco and wipe them all out? You people sicken me."

No wonder you couldn't win this election.... This conspiracy stuff doesn't bring anyone to your cause.

What about the Catholic Church? The Knights of Columbus donated millions towards the "Yes on 8" campaign too. Should they be burned at the stake as well?

This could go on ad nauseum. Trying to blame certain groups for passage of a measure that the majority of Californians voted in favor of.

Stop the witch hunt and accept the results of the election. To do otherwise just makes you look foolish. You don't see anyone out there protesting Obama's victory.

Andru wrote:

"As a final thought, Proposition 8 and the people who founded, funded, and supported Prop 8...are a group of people who wish to deny the rights of another group of people, because they live a different lifestyle. There was another group of people who accomplished the same goal...maybe you have heard of them...they were called NAZI'S. What's next California? Gay Concentration Camps? Public Gay Burnings? You gonna invade San Francisco and wipe them all out? You people sicken me."

Comparing a majority of Californians to Nazis is a divisive and disgraceful comment. The no on 8 bloggers should reject your comments.

It is true that other groups like the KOC helped raise money, but the largest sums of money came from the LDS church. It isn't uncommon to focus on the largest group in a movement.

I don't think it is a wise choice to protest against them though. Let's them claim a victim mentality and doesn't win many votes.

It is true that other groups like the KOC helped raise money, but the largest sums of money came from the LDS church. It isn't uncommon to focus on the largest group in a movement.

I don't think it is a wise choice to protest against them though. Let's them claim a victim mentality and doesn't win many votes.

Are African Americans hateful bigots because they supported prop 8?

Are Catholics hateful bigots for supporting prop 8?

Somehow, the only bigots are the Mormons who supported prop 8 in California. Pretty selective outrage...

Maybe, if you support prop 8, but vote for the Democratic party you aren't a bigot.

But, if you vote Republican and you support prop 8, you are a bigot.

Thanks for the clarification.

Keep yelling at your invisible enemies "Questions" because I didn't call anyone a bigot here. Did your victim card not work this time?

You shouldn't make things up when you blog. It distracts from people actually discussing issues with each other.

What would you call it when you say that someone is calling other bigots when they said no such thing?

Check out this link on what some of the no on 8 radicals said to some black visitors to their rally.

Warning, some language may not be appropriate.

Sure aren't making any friends.

Funny that after years and years of abuse both from the legal system and from criminals against gay people you are suddenly offended at intolerance.

I agree that the behavior that was reported would be disgusting if it happened. There is no excuse for it.

Thanks for joining us. Better late than never!

Funny how you don't admit you were making up fake charges about what people were saying here.

Instead you find a few nuts in a group of tens of thousands and pretend they are representative of the whole. We all know there are nutjobs on both sides of almost any issue. Finding them doesn't prove much.

Before you start posting some other nonsense you owe us a favor by admitting I wasn't calling anyone a bigot here. If you don't post a response we will assume you will give up and come back like a hydra with another fake name and another dumb charge.

You shouldn't make up fake charges to distract well intentioned people discussing issues.

Get back to work building straw men to knock down!

R2D2,

Not at all, robot mentality. It's just that the "No on 8" people need to be consistent. If they're screaming intolerance and trying to burn down Mormon churches in outrage, what does that say about their level of tolerance? Not very much, in this reporter's opinion.

The hateful bigots aren't the voters who made a heartfelt choice when confronted with a misleading and bigoted proposition. The hateful bigots are the ones who spent $25M -$30M on organizing a fear campaign to scare those voters into making that choice.

Religious conservatives have once again found a way to divide us all by forcing their own moral hangups on the rest of the Nation.

If Prop 8 stands, there will be a future where the majority is legally allowed to force its will on other minorities, like Mormons.

You can't begin to compare the suffering of African Americans in this country to what gays have gone through.

Gays view not getting married as a huge crime.

African Americans were slaves, then lived under the Jim Crow south. It was absolutely brutal and wrong.

They have suffered way more in this country than the gay population.

I don't remember seeing gay drinking fountains and straight drinking fountains. Gay men and women have never not been able to vote or participate in the economy like Blacks.

Actually, gays tend to be some of the wealthiest in California.

Give us a break.

Points well made, Excuse Me. As an African American myself, I can attest to so many of the injustices experienced by my parents and grandparents in this country over the years. Some states in the South continue to this day to espouse these hateful, racist views and express discrimination in various ways as we sit here crying over people being allowed to enter into a legal contract.

These folks need to move on and devote their lives to something more meaningful like helping the poor, the homeless, and the downtrodden, instead of trying to drag the rest of us down into their bottomless pitty pot.

I didnt know that discrimination could be called a Bottomless Pitty Potty, while gays have not experienced anything close or resembling what African Americans have suffered throughout history, this isnt about who suffered the most this is about discrimination and equal rights for all regardless of race gender.
No gay person you talk to will put forward a claim that they have suffered more then African Americans have thru history.
Its okay though if you look at the numbers the first time this came up to vote the numbers against were small, this time prop 8 won by a few percentage points, eventually people will accept this and once that happens people will look back and wonder what the big deal is.

Conrad,

The point is, of course, that you and other "No on 8" folks posting on this blog and others are proclaiming that everyone who supported Prop. 8 is a bigot. 71% of African-Americans, including me, supported Prop. 8. Are you calling us all bigots?

Answer the question that has been posed to you numerous times!

A bigot is a person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own, and bigotry is the corresponding state of mind. Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to prejudices even when these views are challenged or proven to be false or not universally applicable or acceptable.

While I never flung the word Bigot I do say that people that support Prop 8 also are supporting discrimination. As such the word bigot could be used to describe someone that is against granting Gay people the same rights that they have.

After all supporters of prop 8 do not see anything wrong with denying equal rights and are fine with supporting sexual discrimination.

I never labeled anyone as a bigot but I did say that they support sexual discrimination.

So, African Americans are bigots for supporting prop 8, or not?

Yes on 8,

What did you think of GS's comment that African Americans and other Yes on 8 voters were "scared" into making that choice.

Sounds kind of condescending to me.

African Americans can make up their own minds thank you very much.

Suggestion for you, please pick a user name and stick with it,
In regards to the bigot question go back and re-read my post the answer is there.

The prop 8 people did a great job on instilling fear thru the campaign of lies and half truths. So I am sure people made their vote based on that factor.

What percentage of Yes on 8 voted because of firm beliefs and convictions? How many voted without really looking into the issues and relied mainly on the misinformation that the prop 8 people put forward in their commercials?

The prop 8 people did a great job on instilling fear thru the campaign of lies and half truths. So I am sure people made their vote based on that factor.

So what is it you think is condescending? The fact that I believe discrimination on that basis of sex is wrong or the fact that I believe supporters of prop 8 believe that discrimination is okay as long as the majority believes the same thing?

An Answer,

I agree that GS's comment on African-Americans was extremely condescending. I guess us black folk aren't intelligent enough to read through a proposition and make a decision on our own without the superior and benevolent guidance and approval of the Mormon Church. These "No on 8'ers" are reaching new highs for prejudice and hypocrisy with every post.

They are all about telling us how intolerant and lacking in acceptance and enlightenment we are while at the same time whining about their loss in the court of public opinion where a true measure of tolerance and acceptance could be demonstrated by them. But, no, they'd rather make racist, inflammatory comments about African-Americans and diminish our opinions and judgment on the issue than make any fair and reasonable arguments that might stand on their own merits.

Amazing stuff, to say the least...

I bet 20 bucks you are not black. Stop speaking for other people! Money given to a black scholarship fund?

But again, not everyone that voted yes on 8 is a bigot. I think your question has been answered multiple times.

Why is so hard to believe I am African-American, Truth? Is it because I support Prop. 8 or is it because I am articulate, well-spoken, and can think for myself? Seems to me you are having trouble distinguishing between these factors, which further affirms your racist inclinations.

Would you deny my ability to speak for a race of people that I belong to, rather than projecting your own biases and built-in prejudices to the discussion? I belong to a church in Oxnard which is predominantly African-American and I can tell you, without a doubt, that 95% of the congregation were in favor of Prop. 8.

So, back to my original question to you and Conrad, do you consider 95% of my church congregation to be bigots? Answer my question, if you have the guts and the integrity to do so.

Obama said he is against gay marriage too. Is Obama also a bigot?

Why hide behind a screen name then?

Barack Obama said he was against Proposition 8. He was very clear about being against it even though the leaders of the yes on campaign selectively left that out of their deceptive ads.

Yes, I do deny your right to speak for a race of people. Who appointed you to be the spokesperson for a race of people?

I will up the bet. You prove that you are African-American and I will donate $100 to a local African-American service organization.

We on?

But to answer your question, no not every person that voted yes is a bigot. That question has been answered many times here already. Do you not read the responses to it? Conrad answered it too.

Leave the horse alone.

It's probably B.S. on the part of "Yes on 8". I would take everything posted here with a grain of salt.

Truth, if I was "Yes on 8", I would tell you to kiss my black ass! He doesn't owe you guys any proof that he's black. Get over it!

His last post stated his position very well as far as what the majority of his fellow worshipers believed. You just refuse to accept reality, don't you?

Go stuff the pseudo-racist, condescending crap, guys! I'll bet that despite your grand impressions of your own intellects you were scared enough to support the invasion of Iraq, right? You were also scared enough to support Bush two times over, right?

That has nothing to say about your intelligence but a lot to say about how an organized strategy of scaring voters works so well. And it was the Mormon Church's scare strategy that brought this issue to a vote. If not for them there would not have been a Prop 8. And if not for Prop 8 neither of you two would have raised the issue.

Sorry to say, but you guys (Conrad, Truth, and gs) are seriously not helping the cause very much here. I think we'd be far better off by working together to get this thing undone. But, making angry pronouncements on a blog aren't the way to go folks.

What did I say that was angry?

I simply offered money to a charity if he would back up his false claim to be African-American. I don't doubt his sincerity because of his political beliefs but because he said he was speaking for a group of people.

None of us should be a self-appointed spokesperson for a race. That itself is delusional and comical.

But to make it interesting I will put up $250 to an African-American service organization if I am wrong. Anyone want to bet?

It seems to me that most Prop 8 opponents are making two basic generalizations about people who voted yes on Prop 8. Based on their statements they seem to be breaking them into one of two groups:

Group 1: Hateful bigots who believe in discrimination and inequality. These folks are likened to Nazis, who support the idea of concentration camps and genocide against those who look different or practice different lifestyles. These indiviudals are generally assumed to be religious, white and registered republicans.

Group 2: Individuals who are not hateful bigots, but have been somehow conned into supporting Prop 8 through manipulation and lies. These folks are so gullible that they were swayed by a sinister fear campaign that confused and scared these voters into making the wrong choice on election day. Essentially, these individuals are simply not strong enough or smart enough to make an independent, informed decision on the issue. Voters who are not hateful bigots but were tricked into voting for Prop 8 are generally assumed to be minorities and registered democrats.

So according the the Prop 8 opponents, not every person who voted for Prop 8 is a hateful bigot, as you could also simply be dumb, uninformed and easily manipulated. But if you voted yes on 8 and are white, republican and religious it is highly likely that you are a hateful bigot. However, if you are a minority or a democrat that voted yes on 8 then you were most likely deceived into voting for this initiative.

Based on this line of reasoning, 70% of African American voters can then be broken into two categories: (1) a very small, perhaps negligible amount of hateful bigots, or (2) the vast majority of black voters who are somehow unable to make informed and intelligent decisions for themselves. The good news for African Americans is that the No on 8 folks believe that 30% of African American voters are actually capable of making intelligent, informed decisions in the voting booth. Of course if you are talking about voting for Obama, then it is assumed that 95% of these voters are considered to be intelligent and informed. So in reality they must only be selectively intelligent and informed, depending on the issue.

Resources to find out who donated to the yes on 8 campaign:

http://tinyurl.com/6qs7ez
http://www.californiansagainsthate.com/

A pharmacy in Simi Valley donated over $20k.
The President of the corporation (WKS Restaurant) that owns El Pollo Loco, Denny's and Corner Bakery donated $6k.

Some people are opposed to gay marriage because of their faith and they want their faith to be written into the state constitution as law. That doesn't mean they are "duped", it just means that proponents of gay marriage need to explain their views to them more.

Many people have said over and over again that they don't believe that people that voted yes are hateful bigots on this blog. But Bubba Kidd keeps inventing his opponents opinions for them.

It is simple, a little more than half of the state voted to outlaw gay marriage. Some of them were duped by misleading commercials that misstated popular political leaders points of view. But some were not mislead and just don't want gay people seen as normal. They realized that keeping marriage legal for gay people would cause them to be seen as normal for future generations. That's what truly was at stake for both sides.

In all of your divisive attempts to throw around charges I don't remember seeing Bubba Kidd say what civil protections or rights that they favor.

Do you favor civil unions? What about protections from being fired based on sexual orientation?

Please stick to the topic instead of trying to find fake opponents to debate.

A.I., how am I not sticking to the topic? I stated was that the No on 8 bloggers seem to be accusing opponents of gay marriage of being either (1) hateful bigots, or (2) so dumb, uninformed and gullible that they were somehow duped into voting for Prop 8.

Interestingly enough, your last post uses that exact line of reasoning. Let's deconstruct what A.I. just posted:

Group 1: "they want their faith to be written into the state constitution as law"; "some were not mislead and just don't want gay people seen as normal. They realized that keeping marriage legal for gay people would case them to be seen as normal for future generations."

Group 2: "Some of them were duped by misleading commercials that misstated popular political leaders points of view"

Andru's earlier post in this thread also makes the same argument:

Group 1: "It's classic bigotry and plain and simply put..DISCRIMINATION"; "There was another group of people who accomplished the same goal...maybe you have heard of them...they were called NAZI'S. What's next California? Gay Concentration Camps? Public Gay Burnings? You gonna invade San Francisco and wipe them all out? You people sicken me."

Group 2: "They (Mormons) lied through their teeth in those ads just to get the FAR TOO MANY California residents who refuse to self educate and just take what they see at face value, to vote yes. Its ridiculous."; "and yet, because people are too simple to face facts, they kept on with their bandwagon."

GS also makes the same argument:

Group 1: "The hateful bigots are the ones who spent $25M -$30M on organizing a fear campaign to scare those voters into making that choice."

Group 2: "The hateful bigots aren't the voters who made a heartfelt choice when confronted with a misleading and bigoted proposition."

Conrad also makes the same argument:

Group 1: "While I never flung the word Bigot I do say that people that support Prop 8 also are supporting discrimination. As such the word bigot could be used to describe someone that is against granting Gay people the same rights that they have."

Group 2: "The prop 8 people did a great job on instilling fear thru the campaign of lies and half truths. So I am sure people made their vote based on that factor."; "How many voted without really looking into the issues and relied mainly on the misinformation that the prop 8 people put forward in their commercials?"; "The prop 8 people did a great job on instilling fear thru the campaign of lies and half truths. So I am sure people made their vote based on that factor."

According to this line of reasoning any rational, informed voter would have been compelled to vote against Prop 8. The only way a person could have actually voted for Prop 8 would have required that they be either (1) a bigot, or (2) so stupid, weak and uninformed that they were somehow tricked into voting for the inititative. With that line of reasoning then you must therefore believe that 70% of African Americans are either bigots, or too dumb and weak-minded to know how to vote correctly.

Otherwise you would have to admit that it is possible that at least some percentage of Yes on 8 voters are actually intelligent and informed. You would be forced to admit that people can respectfully disagree with the idea of legalizing gay marriage without being bigots or homophobes. And, dare I say, you might have to confront the idea that some people are entitled to vote their conscience and values without needing to be "re-educated" on the topic. But you No on 8 folks will never admit that, will you?

The topic you won't address is why you believe that gay families don't deserve the same legal protections as straight families. Calling names isn't helpful from either side, but what do you expect when you would deny a group their legal rights because they are gay?

Yes, I do realize that intelligent people disagree on the issue, but that doesn't mean I need to accept a different legal status for my friends and their families. Every political cause seeks to get people to join their side by defeating the arguments put forth by the other side. This isn't new. The only thing new is your hostility to people continuing to press their case. Are you just as hostile to prolife/prochoice voters? Global warming deniers? Creationist?

Sure, many people did want to deny gay people the same rights as straight people have and they knew full well what they were doing. They were not fooled, they wanted to deny them those legal protections.

But I don't care if you are shocked that we will continue to argue for our friends. What I am interested in is the topic.

Why do you personally feel gay families don't deserve equal treatment under the law? Is it because they are sinful according to your religion? Is it because they are unnatural?

I look forward to reading why you think gay families should be treated different. That is the topic you didn't address.

Truth,

Give it a rest. Yes on 8 has no obligation to prove anything to you. All you're doing is goading people now and it is becoming less and less attractive. You do sound angry and "gs" certainly sounds angry. Both of you have made racially-inflamed comments and this only diminishes our position.

Look, all I'm asking for is for a little calm and reason in the exchanges from both sides. All you guys are accomplishing is dumping fuel on the fire of an already emotional debate. We need to figure out our next steps and proceed on a calm and rational path to have any chance of success in having the courts reverse this horrible decision.

Bubba Kidd has made some good points here. The majority of the voters in California voted, for whatever reason, in favor of Prop. 8. We can't automatically assume that they were all duped, that they're all stupid, or that they're all bigots. These comments are insulting to the voters and are as intolerant and narrow-minded as the way we perceive the outcome of Prop. 8 to be.

Let's move forward with pride and dignity and, in this way, get people to believe in and support our cause. No more angry, threatening protests outside churches, inflammatory blog posts, or letters to the editor. We need to move beyond this now and towards the solution.

Thanks for making my point for me. Because I expressed an opinion different than the vocal No on 8 crowd you have assumed that, using your own words, (1) I believe that “gay families don’t deserve the same legal protections as straight families�, (2) I would “deny a group their legal rights because they are gay�, (3) I believe that “gay families don’t deserve equal treatment under the law�, (4) I believe that “gay families should be treated different�, and (5) that I am some sort of religious nutcase who bases my opinions on the argument that being gay is “sinful� and “unnatural�. So when exactly did I say any of these things?

The issue I have been making from the beginning is that most opponents of Prop 8 have been making these same assumptions about people who disagree with them. They have carefully scripted stereotypes that portray opponents of gay marriage as bigoted conservatives who are primarily religious and Caucasian. While that may represent a small faction of individuals who voted against gay marriage, it doesn’t explain the 70% of African Americans who also voted against gay marriage. Since these African American voters don’t fit the pre-conceived stereotypes they are portrayed as unwitting participants who were somehow duped into voting incorrectly, a position that is incredibly condescending toward the intelligence of black voters. The contradiction in that argument is that African Americans are assumed to be smart enough to cast a vote for president, but not smart enough to cast an informed vote on the issue of gay marriage.

As for me, I voted against Prop 8. That's right, I voted no. Eight years ago I also voted against Prop 22. I have my reasons why I felt that both propositions were misguided. But at the same time I have a great respect for the democratic process. Many of my friends and family members voted for Prop 8, and I believe that they had equally valid arguments for their position. I understand their feelings and believe that many of their concerns and beliefs are legitimate, irrespective of my personal position on Prop 8. But most importantly, I believe that this is an issue that should be decided through the democratic process, not by a handful of judges or activists. Because of that I will respect the outcome of the election and the will of the people, just as I have accepted Barak Obama as our new President even though I voted for the other guy. That is how things are suppose to work in a democracy.

While I sympathize with those who want to legalize gay marriage, I am at the same time repulsed by the resulting attacks being made against certain religious groups. It is offensive to witness these activists singling out Mormons, while simultaneously giving a free pass to African Americans based of their pre-conceived stereotype that Mormons are hateful bigots and that, by definition, African Americans cannot be bigots. Furthermore, it is disgraceful to witness such a lack of respect for our democratic process, with these groups refusing to accept the will of the voters and vowing to endlessly litigate the issue if they don’t get their way.

This thread is a perfect example of the stereotypes and profiling that is being made by the No on 8 zealots. But in pressing the argument that their opponents are intolerant bigots they are, ironically, demonstrating an incredible amount of intolerance and bigotry against others. While there may be some percentage of voters who supported Prop 8 because of bigotry, I don’t believe that you can fight bigotry with bigotry. I also believe that angry protests against churches will ultimately undermine your cause. These groups need to accept the result of the election and use the democratic process to achieve their goals in a future election. If you accomplish your goals through the democratic process then you will have gained legitimacy in a way that can never be achieved by using the court system to overturn the will of the voters.

As "Deceiving Yourselves" stated so appropriately above, you can all kiss my big, shiny, black ass!!! I am done with the continuing racist commentary of Truth and Conrad (who I actually think are one and the same person) and the condescending GS, all of whom love to sling their arrows at people they consider to be inferior and unenlightened, yet want us to support tolerance and acceptance.

Maybe you should listen to your man, "No on H8", who at least offers a reasonable approach to dealing with this issue. You're all cut from the same cloth, as far as I'm concerned. A bunch of disgruntled losers who can't accept the will of the people of this state!

Yes on 8 - you should be ashamed of yourself. You aren't black and you are merely goading others. You pretend you are a Democrat on other threads and blogs at the same time you pretend to be black over here. I recognize your writing style. Knock it off. People know who you are and where you work. We all know you are wasting taxpayers money when you blog during work hours.

To all others, he is probably posting under numerous fake names so if you get the feeling that someone may be goading you, it is probably because someone is goading you.

No on h8,

This is what you said "Both of you have made racially-inflamed comments and this only diminishes our position."

Please find a single racially-inflamed comment I made or please apologize. You shouldn't say something so serious without evidence.

All I did was point out that our supposed African-American should not try to speak for an entire race of people. Especially since we know he is making things up.

Truth, it is very likely that No on h8 is also Yes on 8. And he is probably "Deceiving Yourselves" as well. He isn't Bubba Kidd.

And I think he also said he had a younger gay brother - don't believe for a second.

You mean the same guy that is a self-proclaimed spokesperson for a race that won't prove it for a large donation to a charity? We all knew he was making it up. He shouldn't drag churches he isn't a member of into a debate.

Truth,

Were you serious about the donation, or were you just jerking this guy's chain? Looks like he was jerking yours for quite some time also. Oh well, such are blogs.

Was I seriously willing to bet the money? Of course, as I am sure of my position that he is not African-American and not a member of the church he mentioned in Oxnard. He gave himself away when he said he claimed to be a spokesperson for black people.

So, yes, the offer stands. I am willing to give the money to a neutral party if he is too. Money goes towards a good cause and all.

Yes on 8 if you have such poor reading comprehension then you need to go back and read my comments because NEVER in any of my statements did I mention any kind of Racial slurs or negatives, I referred to all those that voted yes on prop 8 I never singled out any race, nor did I refer to anyone as being inferior so go back and read, You Owe me an apology for accusing me of racist commentary, Go back and read my comments don’t ever accuse me of being racist, don’t confuse me with another persons comments either, assumption is the mother of all (you know the rest).
The one thing that is the core of my being is I don’t believe in discrimination of any form against any race or sex so get that straight in your head.