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DADT Will Be Repealed.

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I fully support repealing Don't Ask Don't Tell.


Many of our military leaders and a large majority of the public wants to allow gay people to serve openly.

US Military members currently serve with openly gay soldiers from our allies including Canada and The UK. If British and Canadian troops are professional enough to serve with openly gay military members I trust American troops can too.

DADT will be repealed. The question is will it be repealed by a vote of Congress or by a Judge. A vote to repeal it by Congress will allow the military to repeal it according to their rules. A vote to keep DADT is a vote to have a court order it repealed. Rep. Elton Gallegly voted to not allow the military to repeal DADT.


Firing Arabic translators for being gay during a war against Al Queda doesn't serve our national security interests.

Gay service members deserve equal treatment under the law. They deserve to have their earned benefits apply to their families. They deserve to send and receive communications with their family without fear they will be discovered as being gay. They deserve to be greeted at the base by their family when they return from war. They deserve our respect.

I support allowing openly gay troops to kill terrorists.

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65 Comments

What's up with that poster? Nothing says "love unites" like a clenched fist.

Seriously though, eggheads in academia, politicians, and pundits are pushing something through that makes themselves feel good, but may cost lives.

If you ask COMBAT troops what they think about repealing DADT--remember, it's one thing to be manning a radar station somewhere cozy in nice living conditions, and something else to be on a battlefield getting shot at--sixty percent of them say that DADT is harmful.

As the head of the Marine Corps said:

“I don’t want to lose any marines to the distraction. I don’t want any marines that I’m visiting at Bethesda with no legs be the result of any type of distraction.”

He has to live in the real world where people might die because of feel-good PC policies that are espoused here and other places.

"eggheads in academia" as soon as someone starts a blog with some childish name calling like this you have to discount everything they say after it. 59% of the American people said don't extend tax breaks to people making over $250,000 a year, since a majority supports it do you Eric? Or do you only support polls that support your far right nutty thinking?

Eric is right on the money here. We ought to be listening to what the combat troops say because they're the ones who will have to live with whatever decision is made. You can call it far right, nutty thinking all you want, but the truth is lives are at stake here and these decisions shouldn't be made in a vacuum by over-relying on the civilian population's views on this matter.

Eric is right. It's a PC move if I've ever seen one. But the problem with that, of course, is that the ones pushing this action are not the ones who will be risking their lives if this thing passes.

Gibson do you consider yourself a member of the Christian Coalition? How about "Promise Keepers"? For the record. Also a majority of combat troops think they should be paid five times as much, so therefore according to Gibson that should happen because that is what they want. Funny, I seem to remember reading in the Constitution that the President and Congress control our military and the military does not control itself. A famous American General found that out the hard way during the Korean war.

Eric,

Do our highest ranking combat veteran generals count as combat troops?

Mike,

How is our national security enhanced by firing Arabic translators who are gay? Have you heard it us current policy to fire openly gay translators?

This thinking of "openly gay and lesbian troops being a distraction" is a shame. We see segregation of the military as wrong today, but high ranking military members in the early 20th century considered integrating blacks and whites as a "distraction" as well. Officers said there would be conflicts and constant tension. Compare them.

The military won't change this policy on their own, and they wouldn't have for integration of the races unless the government at home intervened. Therefore, DADA should be repealed now -- segregation was wrong and so is the firing of gays who risk their lives everyday fighting for our country. There is something wrong with some people if they can't tolerate homosexuals fighting alongside with them.

In complete honesty, gays aren't attracted to every person of their same sex - it shouldn't be a distraction, they have preferences as well.

If you look like Eric Ingenmunson a person doesn't have to ask. Eric Ingenmunson is a person with cranky old ideals he confuses with maturity and values.

The majority of foot soldiers in every branch of the U.S. military don't care if someone in their unit is gay. Most U.S. foot soldiers don't care who or what sex his/her fellow soldiers go home to as long as they go home.

It's the old cranky men at the top. The top brass who want DADT to be law. The old ways of the old men at the top can't let go of their old senile ways of doing things.

I believe Mike Gibson is a Reagan Republican. Ronald Reagan's prejudices and mixed up ideals cost thousands of Americans lives at the beginning of the A.I.D.S. crisis. Ronald Reagan's belief that A.I.D.S if a punishment from God resulted in him doing nothing about the disease... and people died because of it. Mike Gibson wants to do nothing about the disease of prejudice against gay people in America. He wants to let this disease continue to destroy lives just like A.I.D.S. did. Through ignorance and bigotry.

Here we find ourselves again; with liberty on our side, on the battlefield of Democracy, on our own soil, a chance to defend freedom. For a true American the decision is easy between fighting for gay Americans or letting them die out there having to hide who they are. No real American could leave a wounded American out on the battlefield. And I want Mike Gibson to know Jesus is here when he is "Christian enough" to admit he is judging gay people and putting a lower value on their lives then his own. Mike Gibson and Eric Ingenmunson have judged gay people and come to the conclusion that gay people don't deserve the same freedoms, liberty, and justice for all as straight Americans. Jesus is here to forgive them if they would simply ask Him for forgiveness.

We as a Nation must continue to fight for Jesus and American values. We must fight as our ancestors did. There is no element of humanity that doesn't deserve freedom or an American who isn't willing to fight for it.

Brian:

Hot of the press - The United States Senate just passed DADT by a vote of 65 to 31, sending it to the President's desk for signature.

Perhaps the Senators voting in favor of the DADT listened more carefully to the thoughtful voices of the those who serve on the front lines more than those who carp from the punditocracy.

While I recognize that on no issue, including one as important, visceral and controversial as DADT will there be unanimity.. But if one listens closely enough to the wisdom of those closest to the issue, one will find the essential and existential truths hidden deep in the reality of daily combat experiences.

No more clear, elequent and powerful message advocating passage of DADT was advanced that the one articulated by USMC Infantry Captain Nathan Cox, who commanded combat Marines in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

Captain Cox's well-reasoned front-line argument advocating passage of DADT as well as his compelling clarion-call for justice on those front-lines for all who choose to fight and die for their country, was laid-out in an op-ed piece he authored which appeared in yesterday's Washington Post (See URL above).

The following three paragraphs containing the essence of Captain's Cox's argument are set forth below..

"...In the end, Marines in combat will treat sexual orientation the same way they treat race, religion and one's stance on the likelihood of the Patriots winning another Super Bowl. I do not believe the intense desire we all feel as Marines to accomplish the mission and protect each other will be affected in the slightest by knowing the sexual orientation of the man or woman next to us.

In the recent Defense Department survey, 58 percent of combat arms Marines said they felt allowing homosexuals to serve openly would negatively affect their unit, but 84 percent of combat arms Marines who had served with a homosexual said that there would be no effect or that the effect would be positive.

It seems obvious that if allowing homosexuals to serve openly degraded performance, rather than improved it, a majority of Marines who had served with homosexuals would oppose repeal. Yet this is not the case, and homosexuals serve openly in the militaries of Britain, Canada, Australia, Israel and others with no ill effect.

This suggests that much of the opposition toward repeal within the Marine Corps is based on the politics of individual Marines and not any measurable military effect.

It is time for "don't ask, don't tell" to join our other mistakes in the dog-eared chapters of history textbooks. We all bleed red, we all love our country, we are all Marines. In the end, that's all that matters..."

In the end, 65 members of the United States Senate listened carefully to the arguments advanced by Captain Cox and others and chose wisely..

Ultimately, the cohesion and effectiveness of front-line combat teams, the military security of the United States and basic human dignity and justice will be served well by their decision..

NostraDemus

BTW Brian: I agree with Eric on the poster.. Can the Socialist Realism Art - it obfuscates the essential message of Truth, Justice and the American Way!

Nostradamus,


DADT repeal was pushed by a massive grassroots movement of people standing together against a discriminatory policy that hurt our defense. I like the art that helped inspire people to write letters, make calls, and attend protests. Politicians were put on notice they couldn't count on the support of those that elected them if they didn't keep their promises.

For people like Mike and Eric it doesn't matter how many military leaders supported DADT repeal. They were more interested in the few dissenting views.

Brian:

With all due respect, the success today in the United States Senate had nothing whatsoever to do with Socialist Realist Art.

Rather, it was the compelling, effective and persistent testimony by courageous men and women in the American military (some, by the way who are not citizens) in the trenches courageously speaking truth by their actions to both Democratic and Republican political power over many decades.

And such enduring truths, grounded in human dignity and military reality, are as valid today as they were in the time of Achilles and Patroclus, as well as Alexander the Great and Hephaistion.

Namely, that during times of combat in foxholes, trenches, and mountaintops, there are no gays or straights, just as there are no atheists and religionists, let alone blacks, whites and browns, just brave, proud and well-seasoned combatants, loyal to each other and the causes they are willing to lay-down their lives for.

And for a self-styled progressive, Brian, I find your use of the term, "...people like Mike and Eric," disappointing, disturbing and demeaning.. Whass up with that?

While I may question, debate and strongly disagree with the positions advanced by both Mike and Eric on your blog, as I often do, I don't question either their personal motives or individual belief systems.

Only God and we know what truly goes on in our souls. And often, if we profess to possess a conscience, what goes in our souls reflects a constantly churning state of doubt, review and reflection.

Unless one is a sociopath, we all experience this state of confusion and personal doubts, throughout our lifetimes. Often with great personal angst.

Regardless of Mike's and Eric's views, and clearly on DADT I strongly disagree with those views, I respect and defend their right to articulate those views without haughty personal judgment and vilification.

All too often on this and other blogs, there is a rush to demean, demonize and defile, rather than disagree and debate civilly and compellingly by thoughtful argument.

We all need to take heed and apply the timeless wisdom wonderfully articulated by Barbara Jordan, the first African-American Democratic Congresswoman from Texas, and among the most thoughtful and articulate members of the House Judiciary Committee during Nixon's Impeachment hearings.

She courageously warned that political correctness would destroy our Democracy in her Keynote Address during the 1992 Democratic Convention. (See URL above for full text)

Today, it seems particularly appropriate for all Americans of good-faith, goodwill and good-deeds to reflect thoughtfully on the following portion of Ms. Jordan’s Keynote address.

“..We are one, we Americans, and we reject any intruder who seeks to divide us by race or class. We honor cultural identity. However, separatism is not allowed. Separatism is not the American way. And we should not permit ideas like political correctness to become some fad that could reverse our hard-won achievements in civil rights and human rights. Xenophobia, has no place in the Democratic Party. We seek to unite people not divide them and we reject both white racism and black racism. This party will not tolerate bigotry under any guise. America's strength is rooted in its diversity.
Our history bears witness to that statement. E Pluribus Unum was a good motto in the early days of our country and it is a good motto today. From the many, one. It still identifies us - because we are Americans…”

NostraDemus

There were those that thought the U.S. military would fall apart when blacks were integrated into it after WWII. Others that felt that U.S. capabilities would suffer from women in combat too. It turned out to be a lot of noise by bigots, sexists and others who felt they threatened by the competition.

The Israelis don't seem to have any problems with gays in the military. It would be very difficult to find a better fighting force than the Israeli military. I find it a bit distressing that a few folks think it would be a problem for ours.

Nostrademus,

If you think the vote in the Senate would have happened without grassroots organizing then you are wrong.

If you think grassroots organizing did an effective job of reminding people of the many reasons our troops deserve to be treated with equality regardless of who they love I agree with you.

If you think that grassroots organizing persuaded people that our military is professional enough to have openly gay members I agree with you.

If you think our Senators don't always vote their conscience until they see an issue is popular enough I agree with you.

Of course I don't think a particular artist swayed the vote. But from the many rallies in support of equality I have attended or helped organize I can tell that art brings many people together and is a way to share the message.

I am a fan of the noh8campaign and of the It Gets Better campaign. I am also glad that people like Lt. Dan Choi spoke out and told their stories. The people that put their artistic talent to use in bringing the message to the public deserve credit.

But seriously, I don't know why we are discussing a particular poster so much. I don't care to discuss the motif of a poster tonight as it seems trivial compared to this major legislative victory that had some bipartisan support. I added some new art for you, including a picture of Cindy McCain. I don't know what genre the poster on the podium or the McCain poster belong in. Enjoy.

Now, when I said people like Eric and Mike I didn't state anything about their views beyond this very specific issue. I was focused on their ability to not mention the overwhelming testimony of military leaders in favor of repealing DADT.

I don't see evidence that I am the person to focus on when you wrote:

"All too often on this and other blogs, there is a rush to demean, demonize and defile, rather than disagree and debate civilly and compellingly by thoughtful argument."

I don't see many other blogs that post dissenting views in this area or publically give credit to members of the other party. I have recently given credit to Jeff Gorell, Tony Strickland, and Audra Strickland for meeting with the public. The post on Jeff Gorell is on the front page. I also posted a guest blog entry giving credit to a volunteer working for a Republican candidate.

Thanks for reading and posting on my blog.

Brian:

First, last and always, today's victory in the United States Senate belongs to the courageous men and women who demonstrated by their blood, sweat and tears the enduring truth that loyalty to each other, their combat units and their country trumped the doubts of any and all political comers every time..

Without the presence of such a fundamental combat truth, kitschy art, grass-root rallies, and the self-absorbed posturing of the self-selected punditocracy wouldn't mean a thing..

My question to you was directed at the possible reason behind what appeared to me be to be your cavalier and pejorative use of the phrase "people like Eric and Mike," NOT the intrinsic fairness of the way in which you generally administer your blog.

As you well know, on repeated occasions, I have commended you for the general fairness you show in handling vastly different political views on your blog.

In fact, if you recall, I was the only one who publically defended your integrity, when Nobody recklessly suggested that it could be bought by Tony Strickland for the price of a breakfast at a Simi Valley Restaurant.

You and I both know that it can't, and it wasn't since you wisely bought your own breakfast.

Regarding your thinking behind the use of the phrase, “people like Eric and Mike," you've cleared that up in your post above and I thank you for doing so..

Finally, you are correct. Today, American history was made, and both the United States military, and the country as a whole, is a better, stronger and more perfect union due to that historic vote.

Thanks for continuing to host your blog. It provides an interesting and vibrant democracy-is-dialogue cyber-water-cooler meeting place for Ventura County political junkies without regard to race, creed, color, sexual orientation, party or any other protected class defined by the State Legislature, United States Congress and/or the Supreme Court..

Finally in the timeless spirit of a Dickensian Christmas, as Tiny Tim said, “..God Bless Us, Every One..”

NostraDemus

Have you read about the activism of Lt. Dan Choi? It inspired me. You or I won't convince those that disagree with us they were wring by our arguments. Our service members by their actions will do so.

Merry Christmas!

Have you read about the activism of Lt. Dan Choi? It inspired me. You or I won't convince those that disagree with us they were wring by our arguments. Our service members by their actions will do so.

Merry Christmas!

This is an inspiring story: http://thinkprogress.org/2010/12/18/final-dadt-senate/#more-$id

Thanks for the kind words.

Brian:

Thanks for the URL link to the video on Lt. Choi's charge to U.S. Senator, and current Majority Leader Harry Reid.

Yes indeed, I do think that Lt. Choi's story is inspiring, on many levels.

First and foremost, it is grounded in the essence of Duty, Honor, and Country.. The motto of the United States Military Academy at West Point..

Lt. Choi took his military oath of office seriously, and was willing to risk all by discharging his obligations to his country, the Army and ultimately his conscience, by telling the truth and facing the consequences come what may.

Ultimately, both Scripture and the warrior’s code are grounded in the tough, enduring and spiritually elevating value of truth. For all of us, truth is assuredly Thor’s hammer that forges personal character on the anvil of life experience.

Earlier this year, Admiral Mike Mullen, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and this nation’s highest ranking military officer, spoke to a packed audience at the Anderson School of Management’s Korn Convocation Hall for the annual Bernard Brodie Distinguished Lecture on Conditions of Peace, organized by UCLA’s Burkle Center for International Relations. (See URL above for news article).

Here’s how Admiral Mullen crystallized the fundamental reason why DADT should be repealed. Having spent his entire career in the military, Mullen said that he is proud to be a part of “an institution that values integrity … and yet we ask people to come and join us, and work every day as a living and sacrificing member of this great military, and lie every day about who they are.”

Finally, if Saturday’s historic repeal of DADT doesn’t convince all Americans, including far too many so-called “Progressives” in the American-Left who appear to be reflexively anti-military on many issues, of the enduring value that “Duty, Honor and Country,” has to the existential future of the United States of America, perhaps Clarence Darrow’s words will.

It is reported and dramatized by Spencer Tracey portraying Clarence Darrow in the most excellent film, “Inherit the Wind,” that during one of the darkest moments of the Scopes Monkey Trial, when all seemed lost, Mr. Darrow summoned the personal courage necessary to speak truth to Tennessee judicial power.

When asked by the judge whether he believed-in right and wrong, Clarence Darrow replied, “..At the risk of prejudicing my client’s case your Honor, I don’t believe in right and wrong. But I do believe in truth, as a direction.”

Ultimately, Saturday’s 65-31 vote to repeal DADT in the United States Senate was the result of thousands of brave, proud and loyal American men and women in uniform living “Duty, Honor and Country,” every day. And that, more than anything else, caused “Truth, Justice and the American Way,” to triumph in the end.

NostraDemus

It took brave crusaders risking their own careers to educate the public as to the fact that DADT was not fair. The American public craves fairness and that has been a great motivator in response to the activists' campaign to repeal DADT.
I was extremely disappointed in John McCain's pleas to vote against the repeal. He should have taken a lesson from the great Barry Goldwater from his own state of Arizone, who said, "You don't have to be straight to be in the military; you just have to be able to shoot straight."

Mike and Eric are you both mad that republicans supported ending this stupid policy?

Barone, call me crazy, but don't you think gay people who join the military would prefer to have their sexual preferences kept private given the proclivity of young, macho soldiers to hold this against them? I know I wouldn't want it broadcast out there if I was a gay soldier.

I realize it sounds very hip and progressive to get rid of DADT for people who have no idea of how things actually work in the military (like liberal politicians and the public at large), but I believe the reality is that most gay members of the military like it the way it is now and don't want their sexual orientation to get out there.

John McCain gets this, but obviously a lot of other people don't.

Mike,

You have a few mistakes in your argument.

Ending DADT doesn't force people to be open. It gives them the choice.

Anyone that volunteers for service in Afghanistan, gay or straight, is macho to me.

Israel and the UK, two of our strongest allies, allow openly gay troops. If their military members are professional enough why couldn't Americans?

This isn't a liberal politician issue. It was ended with large bipartisan support. Many of our highest ranking military leaders like General Petraeus, General McChrystal, and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates all supported ending it. As did most of the public.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/99689-poll-78-percent-favor-repealing-dont-ask-dont-tell

So Mike when you meet someone do you instantly declare your sexual orientation to them? If someone broke into your house in the middle of the night and you called the police would you ask that a gay officer not be sent, only a straight one?

Mr. Gibson,

I wouldn't quote John McCain on this one. I knew a passionate former Navy jet fighter pilot by that name that I voted for in 2000 to be President. No one knows where that guy went. I think you have him confused with a curmudgeon who now uses that same name and face, but flies his glider in whatever direction the prevailing wind blows.

I go with the position of the late Senator and Air Force Major General Barry Goldwater: "You don't have to be straight to be in the military; you just have to be able to shoot straight." Whatever you thought about Goldwater's positions on issues, he had his own compass to guide him and he flew by it wherever it took him.

Mike Gibson,

How do we know you're not keeping it a secret from us you're gay?

Brian,

Is the military now going to keep records of sexual orientation of the soldiers? When the laws change will sexaul orientation be a question asked?

Nobody,

You and I disagree often but you know I support equal treatment under the law for gay and straight families. Your taunt at Mike is often used because those that oppose equal treatment under the law consider it to be an insult. But being gay isn't an insult.

A real insult would be reminding them they don't believe in equal treatment under the law. Let's be gracious in victory and persistent in defeat.

Merry Christmas!

No, Nobody, I'm not gay. But this isn't about me, it's a serious policy question that needs to be watched very carefully as it is implemented. It may prove to be a failure or result in some unintended consequences, but I'm willing to give it a chance.

Merry Christmas to you, Brian, NostraDemus, Harold, and the other regulars on the Dennert Blog (except Katie, naaahhh, just kiddin', Katie).

Harold,

A Merry Old English Yuletide to your Majesty!

And to that end, it may warm the cockles of your Anglo-Saxon heart for you to see the following lyrics from an earlier, Northern English (nee Scottish) version of the Twelve Days of Christmas.

“The king sent his lady on the first Yule day, | A popingo-aye [parrot]; | Wha learns my carol and carries it away?" The succeeding gifts were two partridges, three plovers, a goose that was grey, three starlings, three goldspinks, a bull that was brown, three ducks a-merry laying, three swans a-merry swimming, an Arabian baboon, three hinds a-merry hunting, three maids a-merry dancing, three stalks o' merry corn.”

Not politically correct by today’s standards, particularly the geographic reference to a Semitic Simian, but then again, during your Majesty’s reign, such sensitive considerations were inconceivable in the King’s court at Wessex..

By the way, interesting that you should choose to use Senator Goldwater’s quote in your spirited defense of the repeal of DADT.

I wonder if you are equally willing to embrace the good Senator’s other, more well-known quote which was, “..Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!”

Or perhaps Harold, by the grace of God, as the last Anglo-Saxon King of England, you always were, “..In medio tutissimus ibis..”

NostraDemus

I agree that most people want to live in peace but in all democratic countries people who feel that the law is not listening to them have the right to public demonstration. Sometimes it is the only way that they can bring their grievances out in the open. The law does not always do the right thing by people especially if they are a minority group. You will always have your point of view but sometimes like all of us we have to stand back and look at why people resort to the action that they choose to take. Agreed, there are always at least two sides to a story and I am interested to know why you think that people should not have the right to voice their protest and why you think that the use of guns may be justifiable. They may not represent all of the civilian population on the island but they are people who seem to be standing up for something that they think is right and I for one do not think that shooting at them is the right thing to do. If the law of your country is as good as you think it is then why can it not resolve this situation peacefully?

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