I do not believe there is any Veteran of any war anywhere on this plant that is Pro-War. I can not recall the authors name but is was said best like this " The soldier, above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier that must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war. " and here's one more " for those that have fought for it freedom has a flavor the sheltered will never know."

Soldiers of all races and countries despise war but understand the single most important truth about war, it is enevitable. As said by Plato "Only the dead have seen the end of war." For some insane reason on is either labeled pro or anti war, this is something I shall never understand. I see it like this, there are those that will come to terms with the reality that war must be fought and the best avoid it is to let all potential opponents fear you and know any attempt at attacking the stronger more determined foe is never pick a fight with them. This is the reason so many great centers of culture like Athens and Rome survived for so long. With freedom and liberty comes the need for an Army to protect and shelter the liberals of society, with soldiers liberals are eventually enslaved. History bears me out here.

The other group are those that look down their collective nose's at the very people that provide the liberty and safety of democracy. another unkown author said this " War is and ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded feeling that believes nothing is worth war is much worse. For individual that has nothing he believes is worth fighting for nothing worth dying for is a miserable creature that has no chance of ever being free unless mads so, and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

So why would I stoop so low has to call fellow "Veterans" cowards ? Because they are. the individuals interviewed were bonfied REMF's and volunteered for duty after 9 /11.
But it seems once they realized their REMF mos's ( military occupational skill) would require the to be ever so slightly exposed to adverse conditions they start crying.

I have the impression that most of the whiners about being extended generally come from the National Guard, I'm sure some are in the reserves and active duty, but by and large most are from the Guard. I will first say that overwhelmingly the majority of the people in the military active, reserve or guard all understand the oath they took the day they enlisted and accept the fact, welcome it actually, that the needs of the country will always come befroe their own. This is what makes the people in our Armed forces such a blessing. These people that are prepared to give their lives for people they don't even know are a dying breed. Now days we have twenty year olds that feel sacrafice is making it to class on time and are encouraged by the "ME" attitude of so many programs on the boob tube.

The problem with so many of the people that whine about being extened joined the Guard for a free ride and really didn't understand the duty of those in the armed forces. It' real simple, when you have decided to make a commitment to your country it means just that, you must keep your word. The needs of the country and military will always come before your own, most understand it and some just don't want to keep their word. Contracts can be extended until the age of 59yrs and everyone should know that.

This new movie will be a box office bust just lke the rest, but it was created to make money only to aid the enemy. If Hollywood had any collective morals they should all be ashamed.

The liberal congress could not care less about what history has taught us and seems to welcome the message of a cowardly retreat from Iraq. It was the reputation of the Greeks and Romans that helped to maitain relativly peaceful and cultured societies, no one dared attack or take military action against them simply because the world knew the end result would be total defeat. It's also true that both these armies were contantly deployed while there citizens prospered.

It was disturbing, but not suprising, to see so many democrats attack General Petraues and insult one more time the integrity of those that protect our republic. They are critical of the Iraqi people for not wanting democracy, and yet the Iraqis had a ninety-percent turnout compared to our forty percent. They say the Iraqis are not willing to risk there lives for their country yet never mention the fact Iraqi soldiers and police officers face fire bombings and beheadings just for wearing the uniform. They mention the fact that Iranians and Syrian extremist are coming through there borders at an alarming rate and allow MILLIONS of Mexican nationals to break or laws, violate our consitution and undermine the rights of our citizens. Why doesn't Congress worry about the domestic enemy pouring through our southern border? It is sure votes for the socialist liberals that wantno citizens to vote. ( Amnesty and anchor babies)

It's so sad that the future of our country is at risk by the non-acting liberals that have done nothing since they've been in office except complain. Only through strength can peace be secured and theliberals are just proving to the Osama Bin Ladens of the world that the United States of America doesn't have the fortitude it had in times gone bad. Too many people in this country that consider themselves should study Plato and Socrates and ask themeselves just what the consequence will be when our military is not allowed to protect democracy.

I also want to say on September 11th I say a bunch of people near our goverment center holding up signs like " No blood for oil" "911 an inside job" and "bring home the troops" just a guess but I'll bet these people are far left and supporters of move-on.org. Free and liberal societies understand "Only the dead have seen the end of war" and understand it will always be a reality.

As far as the second amendment right to keep and bear arms, out here in California it's almost impossible to get a firearm and all that is rquired in the state of California to lose that "right' is an accusation of domestic or workplace violence and it's gone, this is a fact. I know of many people that recieve notices to that effect. The liberal left screams about wire tapping international suspects without warrents, but not a word about losing the second amendment right through the mail based on an accusastion and nothing more, where's the ACLU or Move on.org? I brought up the Iraqis having machine guns in their homes to drive home the point, there is not a civil war in Iraq. If sectional violence means civil war then we ourselves are at civil war, gang violence does more killing in Los Angeles then we experienced in my province in Iraq.

As for the VA. I was told prior to leaving Iraq that thr VA would provide educational assistance to all 911 vets based on the amount of time they were deployed. In my case 2 1/2 years out of five. this amount would determine the amount of the assistance, I qualified for the maximume allowed. I decided to not risk my life anymore and 24yrs of service was enough, I felt that I and many like me had done has J.F.K. asked " Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country". I got out of the resrves and enrolled in school that I might someday teach history and tell the truth about what happend in my little part of the war.

For the last year I recieved aid but that has now been terminated by the VA. The reason the VA ( Veterans Administration) did this was because they they recntly learned I really was a Veteran and could no longer be sent overseas to die. I asked for my pathetic Congresswoman, Louis Capps, to intervine but all they did was agree with the VA. Now this begs the question, Why is the Veterans Administration doing active Army reserve retention? I am not the most educated man on the planet, but are Veterans retired?

The sad thing is this is happening to tens of thousands of Veterans of the War and congress will do nothing. It seems the tiny minority that serve their country first get used the most. At my current school the VA education counsler isn't even a Vet, it would be nice to have someone that understands Vets. Furthermore the person that is supposed to help Vets here seems to have a very nasty attitude towards vets.

Congress is talking about "Universal Health Care" but can't even take care of it's veterans. Vets in my town have to get bussed forty miles to the nearest clinic for medicine. And when one of us has an issue with the VA eduacation department we have to contact Oklahoma. I asked for a summary of my military 401k (thrift savings plan) and they will not respond. I sent an inquiry regarding the end of my education benefits and the VA told Congresswoman Capps office I missed a signature so they will not respond. Let's forget they could call me, send fax info, or mail self addressed envelopes they just won't respond and neither will congress.

Still, I love this country and all that it represents. It is the people that call the shots that are flawed and those of us that allow them to stay in office. I will pay for my own education since Congress doesn't seem to understand that if one is deployed overseas it is not possible to attend school at home, but that is the criteria agreed upon by Congresswoman Capps. The message is typically political "We will make a multitude of promises to get in office or get what we want, just don't expect us to keep them'.

Franz is an only child and loves being a soldier. When I talked to him recently he explained how tough active duty training is opposed to that he recieved in the National Gaurd/Resrves. I learned that some of the men in his new unit. the 101st Airborne, are going on their fourth and fifth deployments. Many of the guys he works with are getting hurt during training because it's non-stop and they are forced to wear alot of heavy armour, I've always felt that so much arnour is just a sign of a defensive might set and too much is made of it, when your numbers up, your numbers up.

He was suprised to learn how little they recieved on active duty for pay and yet tetntion for prior soldiers is at an all time high. I am very proud to have been associated with such unselfish people and hope people someday realize that by cutting and running from adversity is not what soldiers do. It sickens me to see so many of these Democrats talking about "bringing home the troops is the best thing for them" and how we can't win, or we've already lost. If we match the will of guys like Valencia and other soldiers against the will of the radicals "We can't lose. As I see it it is the will of the gutless and cowardly democrats that is causing such despair and sense of loss.

I am currently sitting in my college computor lab and wonder how many of the young students in here ever ask themelves the question J.F.K. asked "Ask not what your country can do for you, but ask what you can do for your country". So few people alive today have ever had to risk their lives for the freedom they have lived since birth and therefore can't understand the quality of those serving now to protect the future.

Since the time I left Iraq in 2006 till today I know people in harms way and worry constantly that this country will turn their back on them just so the elitist democrats/progressives can feel morally superior. The average person in this country never really stops to think about what's going over in Iraq except for the occasional sound bite on the liberal news.

Do people know that every single person in Iraq over the age of eighteen is allowed to own a machine gun and three hundred rounds? and most of them do. If there truly was a civil war in Iraq shouldn't it be a little more abvious then the occasional MUllahs clashing over tribal dispute. Do people understand the tribal concept that exists in 90% of Iraq? Do people know that all Iraqi soldiers can quite their serve on demand? Can they get any credit for what theyv'e done thus far?

As a soldier I have always understood my duty and never asked for any liberal to save me from it, and I am sure the overwhelming majority feel the same. So to those of you that think your doing men like Valencia a favor by accepting failure and kissing the fannies of muslim etremists take from one of your liberal/progressive groups and hear this "Not in our name".
There are very few people left in this country that are willing to do what must be done, let them do it. And to Franz I will just say "Good luck kid."

I'll start off by stating the most important thing I didn't hear mentioned by any single member of the leftist speakers hoping to insult our military and President: What will the long term effects be on the thousands of Iraq vets be after telling them, in this completly ceremonial gesture, 'We never ever believed in what you were doing and couldn't care less about the blood you spilled, all that matters is political rheteric and appeasing the liberal media." Somehow I see bond forming in Vietnam and Iraq vets along the lines of soldiers paying the price for politicians cowardice. And that's the only comparison I'll make in the two wars, emotional scarring.

In essence, the lives of those lost were lost in vain. Boy, that's going to feel great explaining
that after coming so close to success and getting closer to a much more peaceful world then we've ever seen, a bunch of cowards in Congress managed to get the world closer to global destruction. Pelosi, just yesterday, let Iran know they were free to develope and use nucleur weapons against Israel and the west. Any person who can't see this coming is dellusional. This is one pathetic human being that definetly caters to the extreme left.

I also seen several newly elected " Combat Veterans " from Iraq speak in favor of this " Slap in the face " to our President and military. I will do my best to find out the record these people that clearly don't represent the vast majority of those that have had " Boots on the ground." I would ask readers to look back at my " REMF's " entry and be prepared to learn the names of Remf's in congress.

I keep hearing the term " Civil war " from these idiots and saying that we should not deploy more troops, Hello ! they are already in place and have started doing there job. We also never hear any member of congress explain that this number of 21,000 is actually only about 2,000 that will actually be "Outside the wire." And the vast majority of the killing and violence takes place in Bagdad, it's not a " Civil war ". The kurds are very much in control up north, my province had zero secatarian violence and many of the bombers we caught had come from Bagdad, or shall I say Syria and Iran. The Iraqi soldiers we worked with were alomost evenly split Sunni/Shiite and NEVER a single problem with relegion.

The news always comes from the liberal media and is never from those living there. If we want the truth we should start reviewing the thousands of military bloggers to get real perspective on the Iraq situation. Of course these should be catagorized by those that actually go outside the wire more than once a month to deliver supplies and take PR pictures, REMFS.

I will say this for the liberals, more troops are not needed. We just need to get more out of what we've got there now, now more duty for styrafoam plate counters at the DFAC. And rotations " Outside the wire " for everyone.

In my class duscussion the vast MAJORITY were not in support of running and were very suprised to hear that none of what the press and Congress is saying happened in my particular province. I also told them of the numerous Iraqis that had lost loved ones and were very willing to fight for there freedom and fellow Iraqis. I also explained to them of the over 14,000 in and around LSA Anaconda only one battalion and some special operations teams ever left the complete security of the base. This is about 400 soldiers. For those that like to use polls and numbers I will let them know that about 80% of the casualties are from the Bagdad area, the very place Syria and Iran send their assasins. And on fourth of all deaths were through accidents, not direct action by insurgents. Yes, they would all still be alive if they never went to Iraq, that's not the point. The point is the media wants everyone to think all were caused by insurgent activities, there not.

I have to wonder if the invasion of Normandy would have been turned into a full retreat ( redployment?) had it been shown live. Thousands died there within hours and Omaha beach took a full day to secure, peace comes at a price and we are trying to move closer to less global conflicts. But as long as tyrants continue to go unchallenged they will continue to murder those that seek freedom. It is most definitly the minority of our population, any country's population for that matter, that are willing to pay the price that the sheltered and ignorant take for granted.

And it is most digusting to see the leftist refer to complete withdrawel as " redplyment " When troops are no longer

I suppose the most difficult thing to understand is how so many people readily believe what they see in these " if it bleeds, it leads" so called news reports. I never get asked about what good we accomplished while in Iraq, the assumption is always the worst and I get asked constantly " will more troops do any good?" ( the answer to that is, in my personal opinion, NO) I also can't believe so many people can not see the threat to humanity by so many butchers that have only the complete destruction of Israel and the west as priority number one.

I have a very difficult time watching any of the reporting from Iraq, simply because I know it is presented as negativly as possible. Does anybody care about the willingnous of the Iraqi people to endure so much pain? Time and time again many of the bloggers that actually live and serve with the Iraqi people are ignored, when we tell of the valour of the Iraqis nobody seems to care,it's not senastional enough to make money. Instead people liston to what that disgrace of leadership "Pelosi" and "Murtha" have to say after several insightful hours in Iraq and give their "sound assesment" much more credibilty than those that spent every day of the last year of their life in Iraq living with Iraqis.

I also notice that life goes on as usual, perhaps that's the best part. Except that my friends and fellow soldiers are standing ready to sacarafice "All of their tomorrows, for their today" and those that profit the most from the carnage of war ( the practicers of free speech ) seem the least to understand the meaning of this very commitment by its military. It's not for those that now have freedom, but for those that need the help of our soldiers to secure it, and that includes Palestine and Israel.

More to follow.

It is so sad that the liberal media is so bent on embarrassing the Bush administration it forgets history. As soon as on side shows weakness the other side begins taking advantage, it's what I would do. As the fanatics now attack Lebanon and try to restablish an Islamic state, they will do so believing the Congress of the United States doesn't have the backbone to stop them. and they would be right, The soon to be speaker of the house endorsed and incouraged the city of San Francisco to ban all military recruiting in schools and colleges. They have even gone so far as stop all funding for R.O.T.C and yet encourage anti American clubs to exist. And this is the person to lead the american congress?, God help us.

As most any Iraqi will tell you, there has always been secular division in that region. But today it is funded, fueled and directed by Iran, Syria and the fanatics that want desperatly to destroy western culture.

The " Iraq study group " has retrned their much anticipated opinion of what needs to be done and I must say I am not suprised at their findings. It is exactly as the press wanted it to be, negative, and filled with recomendations of running. I would like to point out a few things to these new experts on Iraq that they must have forgotton.

As far as needing more troops there that's not going to solve anything unless they are doing what the troops that are there now need to do, rule with an iron fist, it is the only real short term answer for the bullies running the streets. Does any honest person really wonder why Sadr is running wild in Bagdad? We had the chance to obliterate him and his entire militia but those on the left were to concerned with 'collateral damage", or as we now prefer to say innocent victims. What would've happened is the press would have been all over it and telecast as many dead and mutilated civilians as possible.

The region I worked in was one of the first to be turned over to the Iraqi Army, this was one year ago. There was never any indication or talk of revolution. to a man all the Iraqis I was able to speak with wanted stability and are willing to defend as best they can. The batallion of Iraqi soldiers we worked with was about a sixty/forty split as far as Shia and Sunni sects go. These men lived together, prayed together and fought together. The press will never focus on the positive and I don't believe care how many people die while they play politics.

The many soldiers that were fire bombed and gunned down while were there are never talked about as far as them not ever giving up. The soldiers we worked with were just average fathers that wanted protection and freedom for their families.

I understand that the American military must take orders from civilians, and rightly so, but I wonder why the vast majority of those of us that served in Iraq and actually left "The Wire' on a regular basis believe in what we were doing and see clearly the importance of never abandoning the people of Iraq. I was prepared to die for those people, I'm gald I didn't and sad for those that did, and can't understand this "Moral obligation" of the leftist to spare us from our own willingnous to sacrafice for others.

The biggest weapon of mas destruction comes from the indifferent. It is true that thousands of chemical weapons were found, we sold them to Sadaaam, and the press does nothing to remind us Sadaaam was supposed to destroy these ten years earlier. But the real harm comes from so many people just ignoring the threat to western civilization and acting as if America is the agressor in the world. We tend to tolerate dictators until it's much too late and really have forgotton the sacrafice of millions of Americans that secured our peace and freedom.

I have come home to find student governments at our colleges refusing to say the "pledge of allegience" because some of them are anti american, and yet apply for government loans. I see thousands od Mexican nationals protesting our government and demanding the right to vote, have jobs and recieve social services but don't want to pledge the flag or pay taxes. And Americans here actually agree with them. Everyone can see how wrong this is for our country and yet no one says anything, we just allow it to continue, the indifferent.

People all over the world dream of living here and someday calling themselves Americans and yet Americans don't see citizenship as something sacred, it was just given to them. The fact of the matter is unless one has actually been in the "Sandbox" one really can't understand how important this issue in Iraq is and will simply continue to act as if Americans are the ones at fault for so much violence.

Why no outrage over the beheadings, violent protest and murders? People just won't care until it's too late. History only tells us that those that use terror and murder as part of Governmant policy can only be dealt with in the most harsh of reatalation. All this talk about what needs to be done there to stop the kidnappings and murders is to resolve. Sadaam had the answer, kill all suspects as he did in Ah Dujahl. But Democracy talks time and empowering an entire nation of people that have never known such things will take much more time, we as a nation have lost our sense of duty. Maybe Kruchove was right, we will destroy ourselves from with in.

I have talked to several people that believe President Bush just wants oil money and the ability to take away the constitutional rights of all Americans.They also believe that we have failed horrbly in Iraq and continue to do so. They love to say Iraq is now in a civil war.and we should just pull out. I always wait until they are finished simply because I find these people very intresting and want to understand where they are coming from.

After they feel they've proved their point I ask them how many people that were there, are are there now, have confimed what you believe, In other words how can you prove your point. It's almost always the same " Just look at all the news from there and the bodies that are being found". I then tell them that I was there for an entire year and was at the base of the Sunni triangle in central Iraq. I tell them that much of the stuff they see is from the efforts of the enemies of Iraq, Syria, Iran Jordan and the Takfiri. The hundreds of Iraqis that I spoke to know this and will tell us often. I tell them that fueds over land, waterways and other property often result in gunfire. The loss of any life is a tragedy but this is life in that entire region. It really is important for alot of the Bush haters to believe that none of what the press is reporting never would have happened had we not gone into Iraq.

The Bush haters all love to say that WMD's were never found, I remind them that thousands of chemical weapons were, in fact, found early in the liberation of Iraq, the press spent about two days reporting it. These were found twelve years after they are said to have been destroyed. I let them know that I also served at the chemical weapons depot in Utah after 9/11 and know that just one drop of this stuff the size of a pinhead can cause violent and painful death. The usual response, from the few that know this, is " Well these were all very old weapons and not really a threat ". People just can't give President Bush credit for anything.

I like asking these people for the names of anyone they know that was killed over there, Iraqi or American, they don't know anyone but believe they are doing all of us a favor by bad mouthing our Government and President, which is their right of course, but they really aren't helping.

I recently saw a young Army officer that lost his leg in combat that was trying to help disabled vets with gainful employment, he admits these vets could just get retirment and not work again, but this would only hurt our vets. He descrbed lots of things these wounded could do. he never brought in

The men of the 4th Iraqi Infantry were dancing and singing, when I asked them the reason they told me it was because they were going to vote the next day, this kind of joy will never be reported by the left leaning press. What is even more important is that the next day while collecting the ballots the soldiers were ambushed by the Takfiri. We sat there that night and saw the shattered and bloody vehichles came back to the base. I knew that these men still had a long way to go and much more pain to endure, freedom truly comes at a high price and these men are willing to pay it. We would be leaving for good in just three days.

I only wish more people could experience the cost of freedom and repect the fact that it is not only a right to vote but a duty.I can only try a few at a time but I will try to get as many people as I can involved this year.

But I really have to express my discust with the conduct of so many "Judges" that seem to ignore the will of the voters here in the U.S. For those readers that haven't heard, recently the voters of Arizona passed a law that required everyone that voted had to prove citizenship, I know, we didn't already have that as law? Well two 9th circuit court of apellate "Judges" struck down the law. So many of us have to think "What's the point of voting ones consciuse when one person holds the power to supress their will, and enforce theirs" That sounds more like a Tyrant than a Judge.

I really fear for our country when so many men and women have paid the price for freedom we can't even fire Tyrant Judges and, here in California, cant even get a thirty percent voter turn out. And this place that seems to have gone so wrong for Liberals and leftest, Iraq, has an average of eighty-five percent voter turn out. Remember, these people risk death to vote, but still want the freedom to do so. Where's the day to day coverage on all our success?

On a couple personal notes: If "Aus the Terp" is my feind Aus please contact me and let me know how all my Iraqi brothers are. Part of the reason why I haven't been heavy on this blog is because of some legal problems with my ex-girlfriend and the liberal courts. I have had a "Domestic Violence Order" filed against me and have lost several of my constitutional rights. I will just say I have never touched or threatend any woman or child as is alleged, let alone harmed them. Here in California the courts are trying to make it so all that has to be proved is that the female plaintiff is frieghtend, proof not needed. I really have got to write about this because when I do more people will see how corrupt our system is becoming and no one seems to care. This particular "JUDGE" is nothing more than a left leaning bigot and Tyrant.

And they do respect and believe in Jesus Christ, he is one of the true prophets. The problem is with the " TAKFIRI". I will let them know what these people are to most Muslims and explain why our focus should always be on the "TAKFIRI" and there is a very real threat to every American from them, as well as a threat to all true Muslims. Muslims hate the "TAKFIRI" more than we ever will.

The second thing I want them to understand is that our own liberal press and just about every politician out there is doing nothing to expose and explain the difference. Why that is I don't know I just know it seems so easy to group all Muslims together.

As I take my walks along the sunny ( sunni ) Santa Barbara beach and hear so many tourists denouce our President and complain about our being in Iraq I wonder how many of them even think about the harm that would come to so many families and children unless we stop the " TAKFIRI " before they spread like a cancer to our shores. They all seem so self rightous and and completly ignorant. All they ever say is " We need to get out of there now!! " go back to their bannana smoothie pat each other on the back for having taken the moral high road. Freedom is something none of them have ever been willing to die for, let alone the people of Iraq who are putting all on the line every day just for a taste of what we are born into.

For those that have fought for it, FREEDOM has a flavor the sheltered will never know.

A women just hanging around since 1969 walked up to us and asked " What about the Iraqis ? Where's the remberence of the ONE MILLION innocent Iraqis our military has murdered ?
I answered " Right here " and pointed to my memorial braclet and said " And here " and pointed to my heart. I then asked here for the names of some of these people that were murdered and offered the names of those Iraqi soldiers I knew that died and continue to serve. She got very upset and said to me and the Vietnam Vet " You're all just baby killers and slaves of Bush! ".

We both just shook our heads and chuckeled at the shamless conduct we had just seen, as did others at the memorial site. I have gotten more and more upset with the coverage people like this and Cindy Sheehan get while our soldiers continue to serve nobley and get used by the Press and Politicians, both in and out of uniform.

The site, I am told, was created when the death toll from Iraq was around four hundred. Today when erected every Sunday it has closer to three-thousand small wooden crosses, one for every American soldier killed in Iraq. The site was created by a group of Veterans called " Veterans for Peace " it was probably well intended as a memorial but has become a place to, in my personal opinion, dishonor the sacrafice of the fallen.

Last Mothers day there was the usual rally at the site and I stopped to listen to all the burnt out activist from the sixtys talk about how horrible and pointless "War" is and that together the Mothers of America could put an end to "War". I looked around and saw so many people wringing their hands and, with closed eyes, knodding in agreement. I wondered if these socially elite people even know the number and names of the women that have died for the rights of other women in Iraq, probably not. There was never any mention of these women or their children, only self rightous rehteric and dellusions of world peace.

As I looked around at these folks I heard one of the speakers mention the fact that American women had only been allowed to vote for less than one hundred years, there was no mention of the Iraqi women voting for the first time in histry, I wonder if it just slipped their mind ?
I had to supress the urge to scream out " How many of these crosses have the names of women on them ? And just how many were mothers when they gave their lives for the women of Iraq ?."

And did any of these people know the story of the real "Arlington" ? What is Arlington if not a symbol of the price our country has paid for the liberties these people so freely exercise prior to their evening glass of "Merlot" and ridicule of those that serve ?

it really was difficult to hold my tongue and not challenge the speakers, but it really wouldn't have accomplished anything I believed to be positive. These folks are quite comortable sitting on the beach in Santa Barbara admiring art, creative speech, wine tasting, peace rallies and never acknowledging the price paid for such liberties.