It is amazing. Would the Democrats be upset and spend lots of money on congressional hearings if only one illegal alien was found at a meat packing plant?
Yet, 400 were found at one location, working for one firm, they get arrested and will soon be deported. Oh, did I mention that not only did the 400 sneak into the nation, they were also charged with identity theft and Social Security fraud. These are NOT nice people, they are criminals.
Yet, the Democrats are more upset that law enforcement did its job rather than the corruption and criminals acts of the illegal aliens.
This upset the Democrats, from the Ventura Star article, ""This looks and feels like a cattle auction, not a criminal prosecution in the United States," said Rep. Zoe Lofgren, D-Calif., a former immigration lawyer and chair of the House Judiciary subcommittee on immigration."
She calls a mass collection of law breakers a "cattle call". How ignorant. Instead of congratulating law enforcement on doing a good job, she harasses the leadership of ICE for doing their jobs. Maybe the Democrats should present a bill and put a cap on the number of illegal aliens at one time, in one location that can be found? .
If Lofgren was doing her job she would hold hearing on why the corporation hired so many illegal aliens. She would ask how much do these criminals cost honest Americans. She could question how so many in one location can break so many laws? That would be responsible.
Would the Democrat Congresswoman suggest that only one illegal alien be arrested and that the other 399 be let go because there were too many of them?
Lofgren should be glad that one raid gave us so many illegal aliens.
What I would like to see is an analysis of the cost of the 400 illegal aliens--health care, education welfare, lower wages, housing, etc.
The Democrats prefer open borders and law breakers holding jobs that belong to honest citizens. Do you agree? Or what other excuse would you give for the holding the hearing and calling the raid a "cattle call"?
I don't know how the ICE agents conducted it's raid, but I think anytime you round up a couple of hundred people and haul them off, it's bound to be compared to cattle.
I don't dispute that these workers broke laws, at least immigration laws. The use of the "criminal" moniker is to stoke up emotion, something being used by politicians to "herd" people along (there's that cattle thing again).
Ever make a "California stop" at a stop sign? Hmm..against the Law isn't that? Does the make you a criminal? Well..technically I guess it would, but there are differences between a traffic infraction and murder.
Which brings me to the now surfacing charges of child labor law violations, working people 17 hours a day without rest breaks or overtime. We could presume the meat packer involved also knew these workers were not documented, hence the inclination to treat them like serfs. Gives new meaning to keeping kosher 'eh?
Whose criminality is worse? The 17 year old working 17 hours a day for $7.25 or the company supervisors who all such things?
Stop dancing around the issue, Tom. Wrong is wrong. Illegal aliens are criminals by virtue of the fact that they broke into this country. Plain and simple. There is no gray area here.
Not only that, but they are imposing a huge cost to the "legal" taxpayers, in terms of health care, education, welfare, housing, incarceration costs, driving down wages, illegal drug trafficking, gang activity, etc., etc., etc.
The legal taxpayers of this country have had quite enough of this and we are insisting that ICE does its job of enforcing our borders. We made it very clear to Congress last year that we do not want amnesty in any form and I don't see an amnesty bill coming back any time soon (under the guise of "comprehensive immigration reform").
Just to show how absolutely out of control this has gotten, last month three innocent people were murdered in cold blood in the streets of San Francisco by an illegal El Salvadoran gang-banger who had been released from jail in that city because local law enforcement doesn't deal with "immigration issues." San Francisco and its wonderful mayor, Gavin Newsome, has declared itself a "sanctuary city" and, therefore, will not be enforcing any laws related to illegal immigration. Well, I'm sure the family of these poor people who were murdered by this scum are thankful for that.
Mexico has no problem enforcing its southern borders against illegal crossings and is strictly enforcing a shoot-to-kill policy on those they see breaking into their country. At the same time, they see fit to decry our policies of trying to prevent their citizens from crossing into our country illegally (in a much more civil, humane manner I might add).
Mongo...there you go again!
I think I indicated that laws are broken when undocumented workers come here.
Sure, I'll give it to you that a Salvadoran gang banger murdered....so did a lot of native borne citizens. What does this prove? That some people commit murder? This is news?
Using that example of a Salvadoran gang-banger is exactly what is wrong with your side of the debate. Using extreme examples to drum up fear, and loathing and even hatred contributes nothing to a solution. It's not necessary really, its just demagoguery. The vast majority of undocumented workers are only here to work and in fact are quite shy, fearful (of deportation that's true), and timid.
There is no doubt that legal taxpayers pay much to support the undocumented, but many leave out the fact that many of the undocumented themselves pay the same taxes, and by providing a cheap labor pool lower costs of food and products. They contribute as well as take from our economy.
At least you acknowledge that some taxpayers here may not have legal status...that's a start to reasonable discourse.
It's not just black and white, there are, regrettably, many shades of gray between the two. Stating or wishing it were so, does not make it so. Being simplistic might work for you, but it won't work for solving these problems. Hasn't so far has it?
Problem is, exploring the nuances of the problems is boring, and doesn't inflame voters (much less bloggers), hence the sort of nonsense (and ineffective I might add) type of commentary like many on the Right make just for political gain.
The zero tolerance approach just won't and doesn't fly, and if the Right is content to merely be a speed bump on the way to finding a solution, well, whatever.
Then things might just stay as they are.
Tom,
What shell have you been living under? Do you realize that as much as 17 percent of the jail population in border states (such as California, Arizona, and Texas) is comprised of illegal aliens? Believe me, these aren't the shy, timid, hard-working immigrants you are portraying them as. These are hard core, gang-banging criminals, many of which are members of such notorious, murderous, drug-smuggling gangs as MS-13.
We need to be deporting these criminals and not, like San Francisco and other cities, serving as welcoming havens for them when we declare our cities "sanctuaries for illegals." This is ludicrous and it needs to stop now.
Nuances, schumances. If we were only to enforce our immigration laws and require cities to do the same, maybe Mexico would have some incentives to fix its corrupt, socialist government and provide for its citizens instead of encouraging them to head north so they don't have to deal with their own social/societal problems.
Mongo....you been sniffing the ozone again?
Whatever percent of the jail population you pick, you don't tie it much to the undocumented population that is unquestionably in this region. What does that 17% mean? Beats me! You sure don't relate it to overall numbers.
Ok, Uhm, no, I'd guess that con's doing hard time are NOT just working folks, they are not shy, and they are not timid. Yup, those doing hard time for major felonies, are criminals. You are right there....but how does this relate to some peon that just wants to cut your grass lawn?
Yep, we need to deport those thugs, like MS-13, ASAP. No argument there.
But what about the middle aged woman that just wants to earn a living cleaning a hotel room?
Are you really trying to equate a gang-banger drug dealer with a hotel maid? Really? Gimmee a break!
What's next, a guy washing dishes with a guy who rapes?
You fail to connect the "17%" of jail inmates to the much larger undocumented population.
These kind of statements seem only to exist to inflame opinion, cause fear, and encourage hatred.
You pretty much walked into that one Mongo!
I'm not saying that "sanctuary" cities are right (though at least churches may have some precedent), and clearly folks here without legal sanction are an issue, but I am saying that wild and inflammatory rants don't help things much, they just make it worse and they don't contribute to solutions.
It's just a a lot of noise.
Yes, enforce the laws at the border, no problem there for me. Deport the truly dangerous criminals.
Just leave the misleading rants aside ok?
Tom,
How dare you accuse me of being racist and ranting about this issue? This is an issue that is near and dear to the hearts of many Americans and it has nothing to do with racism. It has everything to do with abiding by the law.
Why, pray tell, do we have immigration laws when we are not expecting the government to enforce them? You can't answer that question, Tom, can you? Because there is no reasonable response to it, that's why!
This is not a "lot of noise" (as you describe it), but a serious policy/law enforcement discussion that a lot of people are very concerned about - and these people all vote.
On your question on the prison population figures I used, actually I was low-balling it. As much as 25% of the California prison population (180,000) is estimated to be comprised of illegal aliens. That would equate to 45,000 illegals floating around in the prison system, at a cost to taxpayers of $635 million per year.
Are those numbers startling enough for you? If not, I've got more.
TIME TO ABOLISH "THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY"?
DON'T SAY IT IS TOO LONG, READ IT OR IT IS YOUR LOSS!!!!!
Which party is giving away our Social Security to Immigrants?
Which party is giving BILLIONS OF OUR DOLLARS, to illegal immigrants so they can have FREE MEDICAL COVERAGE?
Which party started to TAX our Social Security, which WAS NOT to be TAXED?
Which party does the, some time anti-American, A.C.L.U. back?
Which party does about 87% of American Jews support?
Which party sends $3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR to Israel?
Which party has most of these BLEEDING HEART LIBERALS, who have taken discipline out of the homes & schools? Hey dummies, kids need discipline & direction, you way is NOT working!!
Which party had the President, who abolished "THE DRAFT", making it very UNFAIR?
Which party, had The First Lady,who was going to correct the Medical Insurance Problem in America, about 15 years ago?
Which party had the President, which cost AMERICANS, $60 MILLION DOLLARS, to clean up the Whitewater Land Deal?
Which party had the President, who WOULD NOT ALLOW, our military to wear their uniforms in The White House? Just ask Lt. Col. Robert Patterson.
Which party had a President, who allegedly RAPED a woman, Juanita Broaddrick, in 1978, when he was Governor?
Which party had a President, who TRASHED The White House while leaving?
Which Congress, does everything it can to make President Bush LOOK BAD, even though it hurts THE AMERICAN PEOPLE?
Which party has the TWO LIBERAL BLEEDING HEART SENATORS in California, that has turned that state in to Mexico-fornia?
Which party was in office when 56,000 American young men died in Viet-Nam money war?
Did Lyndon Baines Johnson, a Democrat say this about the Vietnam War ? What do you think LBJ meant?
[to the Chiefs of Staff in the White House] Just get me the election; I'll give you your damn war.
Which party did the Senator belong to, when a pregnant young lady drowned in his car?
Which party had a President with a Body Count List (61)? Including 12 Body Guards?
Which party had the President, who lied under oath?
Which party had the President, who chicken-out, when they could have taken Bin Laden out, BEFORE September 11, 2001? (DOOMS DAY)
Which party was in office, in 1962, claiming Marilyn Monroe committed suicide? What a joke, was MM going to spill the beans on both brothers?
Which party won't let us drill for oil? Now we pay $4.00 a gallon for gas, while making our enemies BILLIONAIRES?
Which party had the President, with allegation of activities from the Mena, Arkansas Airport, while governor?
Which party have these LIBERAL POLITICIANS & JUDGES, trying to take "GOD" out of America?
Which party is trying to put a BORN MUSLIM, in the White House, 7 years after the Muslims attacked us? They will have a parade in IRAN when Obama is elected!
Which party had the President, who did almost nothing, after the Muslims tried to blow up the World Trade Center in 1993?
Did FDR, a Democrat, know the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor, before December 7, 1941?
Which party has the Liberal News Media, in their back pocket?
Which party is associated with these DISGUSTING NAMES: Kerry, Clinton, Gore, Kennedy, 90 year old Byrd, Feinstein, Dean, LBJ, Boxer, Jackson, Carter, Schumer, Sharpton, Feingold, Levin, etc.?
Which party had a President who hated the Jews? Was it, Give me Jimmy?
Which party, claimed former White House Counsel, Vince Foster, committed suicide?
Which party backs foreign aid? This cost us American tax payers, BILLIONS OF DOLLAR A YEAR!
Which party keeps calling the Republicans War Mongers? Anybody remember FDR, Give them hell Harry, JFK, LBJ, all Democrats!
Which Party has almost completely forgotten THE TRUE AMERICAN PEOPLE?
Which party has that guy who gets Mega-Bucks for his speeches, but may, belong in jail?
(See the Fouthmouthed Clintons, on the Net)
Years ago, my father was a Democratic Committeeman, for about 25 years. He would be turning over in his grave!
Has the Democratic Party ever heard the word: HYPOCRITES!
YUP, IT IS TIME TO ABOLISH "THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY"?
It will be replaced with "THE AMERICANS FIRST" Party!
Tony Caputo of Sarasota County, Florida - August 5, 2008.
Doubt if the Democrats are willing, or could defend their policies. Unemployment, deficits, crime, failed schools are all the results of their failed policies.
How can I foregt the sky high energy costs?
How can that be defended. Thanks for noting a partial list of Liberal and Luddite caused problems.
I would be surprised if they care to answer, too busy writing letters and making calls to tax the poor and middle class of California.