This is a very serious issue to me because I had struggles my freshman year of college. Tim, do you know of any partnering program between moorpark and the unified school districts to get kids better prepared for college.

What responsibilities fall on the students to prepare for school?

Scott,

I think a great deal of the responsibility falls on the kids, then their families, then the schools. But who is telling kids that when they are 18?

I am hopeful there are such programs like you mention, but more is needed. There needs to be someway to reinforce that gradutation is the beginning of the journey.

It seems so often, that by the end of 12th grade, kids, and the classes required are ramping down, not up. Perhaps skill mastery, accountability and schedules need to increase from 9th to 12th grade, while extracurricular activities become just that - extra. More rigorous and demanding work, college level work should be required. If you read any of the studies, the kids clarly tell us they can handle it - and want it.

Shouldn't we have those expectations?

Tim

Tim:

It stated today that the SVUSD reinstated a nurse position. Are you for or against that?

Scott

While unclear what it has to do with the topic, I applaud the District for increasing nursing staff. I would have considered a partnership with Simi Valley Hospital first to see if there would be a way to rotate nurses and doctors throughout campuses first, but I don't generally have a problem with nursing positions.

I have never seen a nurse on our local campus, but that's not to say they don't show up. I'd like to see nurses get involved in:

PE
Nutrition Counseling
Health & Welfare of those in need
General diagnosis of illness

And much more...

Tim

Tim:

Why don't we start funding schools, so they have the best classrooms, books, and teachers money can buy? Maybe, if we spent some real investment in kids, they wouldn't need to retake classes in college.

Instead, our current policy is to fund schools in Iraq instead of our own schools here?

I guess Iraqi children are more important than American kids because Iraqi kids will work oil rigs for a nickel a week, so we can buy gas at $3.00 a gallon. hmm...

The Republican majority keeps asking schools to meet more and more test requirements and than just disappears when teachers and schools hold out their hand for some cash.

I'm so glad Haliburton has brand new posh offices at the expense of American taxpayers while kids, teachers, and everyone else suffers from underfunded schools... Are you happy Tim?

Maybe, if our elected officials were as aggressive in getting funds for haliburton as they were in funding our schools, kids wouldn't waste their time in remedial college courses and have people like you question why school districts can't do more with less and less?

Why don't you ask the testing industry if their happy with all these new requirements? Maybe, you can ride in their limo while you talk about holding everyone accountable, but republicans.

Doug

Great Article from a newspaper in Austin, Texas regarding innovative learning methods at UT:

http://www.statesman.com/opinion/content/editorial/stories/08/25hurtado_edit.html

TK

Something has to change (at the schools) – no, not really.

At the end of the article, Tim asked “What would you do to correct this in America today?� My answer is – nothing! There are a variety of schools available and it is simply necessary to select the school that gets you to you and your kids’ goal. And even within a family, different kids will have different goals. Just as there are many different kinds of cars, there are different kinds of schools. You just have to pick the one that fits your needs. Tim might want a Corvette, but it may not fit his family needs. So does he adapt his family to fit the Corvette or does he buy a 4-door Impala? So if the neighborhood school is not a fit, you go find a school that fits.

The state of the schools is the consensus of what all the parents want. The question for Tim, Scott, Brian and Arleigh is “are the schools meeting your expectations?� What are your expectations? What is the end game? Each parent has different expectations. Is a high school diploma the end of the road? Or do you expect your kids to go onto college? If so, what sort of college? Some answers include a community college, a local 4-year university (just kidding because you can’t finish in 4 years), any other 4-year university, or perhaps a top-100 ranked university. Or is high school a point on the path to a career in professional sports?

The school system won’t change, just like the Corvette. If you like to joust at windmills, go for it. You can attempt to change the way the local schools go about the business of education, but you won’t get far. A change for the positive for you is a change for the negative for someone else. Not to mention that what you want may not be what the teachers and administrators want. You are better off spending your time finding a school that meets your needs and enrolling your kids there. As I have said before, public schools are about jobs. You are going to have to change, if you don’t like what is happening in the schools. In order to meet the needs of all people, the public schools must lower the bar. Is that where you want your kids to be?

The local schools send a majority of their graduates to community college. A small number don’t go to college. A similar small number go to 4 year universities. A very tiny number have the academic background to be accepted at one of the top-100 ranked schools. If community college is your plan, then you are going to the right schools.

Sports

Scott, did you see the comment about what students thought the schools emphasize? Seventy-two percent of the kids said that their schools place a substantial emphasis on athletics. The quote was “Well, if you look at the trophy case, you’ll see all the athletic trophies, but you won’t see one for the quiz bowl.� Parents say they want academics, but they reward sports.

For all of you who kids have yet to enter high school, what is in the trophy case of the school you intend to send you kids to?

Jerre

Jerre:

In seven days college football starts on television. I really enjoy college football. When I was at the University of Arizona, I went to every game, but it did not detract from my studies.

I think this is an either/or issue for you. You think if a school has a great football program or a great basketball program, then they must not emphasize academics. I have a few examples...

Harvard-Westlake has a great basketball program and has students that go to Harvard and Yale. Just because they had a couple players that ended up playing for the Knicks and the Nets doesn't detract from their rigorous scholastic programs.

Oaks Christian is starting a pre-season High School All American quarterback that a lot of people will be cheering for. Oaks Christian has made a lot of scholastic achievements.

Also, When I was in high school I played basketball against a point guard who I competed with since I was in fourth grade. I couldn't ever beat the guy. He went to Dartmouth.

I just don't think parents should be disuaded from certain schools because they have a great athletic program. It is not athletics fault parents don't take an interest in academics.

If anything athletics improve the morale and togetherness at campus by creating a fun social event teenagers can enjoy together.

I don't think its either/or, I think you can have both great academics and great sports team.

Scott

Scott, my point exactly. Tim asked “what needs to be changed?� and my answer was “nothing�. There are a sufficient number of high schools out there that have different offerings and emphases. You choose the one that is best for your kids. But that choice includes knowing what the school emphasizes. The biggest percentage of kids from the local high schools go on to community college, which is perfectly fine if that was your and your kid’s goal. However, many parents discover in their kid’s senior year in high school that there is no way that the kid qualifies for any of the colleges that they may have had in mind. Then they are angry with the school. Many parents talk academics but emphasis athletics.

The schools you cited are college prep schools. That is their emphasis and that is why the parents choose those schools. The curriculum is set to meet the entrance requirements for the UC system. Every kid who completes high school at one of those schools meets the entrance requirements for virtually every college in the U.S. They also have athletic programs, but the emphasis is on college prep. I doubt that those basketball players from H-W chose Harvard and Yale for their athletic programs. I don’t know where you went to high school, but even the local schools have a handful of graduates that go on to big-time schools. The question is, if you expect that you kid is going to go to a big-time school, do you choose a high school where all of the kids meet the highest college entrance requirements or a school where only a handful meet the requirements? My point is that it’s up to you and you kid, and that there are a number of schools to choose from, emphasis on choose. But it’s crazy to choose a high school for academics when what you really want is athletics. All of the information to make a rational choice is readily available.

Jerre

Jerre:

Are you essentially saying that the current level of kids prepared for college is acceptable and really is the parents responsibility to fix the problem, not the system?

Scott

Scott:

Pardon my delay in getting back to the blog, but it’s been a little busy lately and I like to put together a coherent response.

I don’t think that the education that most kids get at public high schools is acceptable, by my standards. I applaud your efforts to effect change, but I don’t think you will live long enough to see substantive change. What I am saying is that not one size school fits all high school students, nor can it. The public high schools must cater to the broad majority of their students and meet the state’s educational requirements. Parents may choose to push for changes but any change must conform to state educational code, and be accepted by the administration, the teachers and the union. Other than attempting to change “the system� the other choice for parents is to move their kids to a school that does meet their needs. When our kids were young we, too, fought the good fight. But the system is too big and people other than parents have a vested interest in status quo. Beyond elementary school, the schools were too large and the standards were too low. We were not willing to put our kids into a system where only handfuls succeed at the level we set.

At CSUN, more than half of the freshmen every year need remedial math and English instruction just to get up to the college’s minimum standard. In my mind, this reflects poorly on the local public schools. The graduation requirements of high school fail to meet the standard entrance requirements for many colleges. I assume that parents know this, because there’s an article in the newspaper every year. And yet, parents still send their kids to these high schools. I can't explain it other than parents don't walk the talk.

How do you feel about the High School Exit Exam? Some parents are in favor of it, many are opposed. Mostly it boils down to if your kids pass the test it’s OK, if they don’t pass the test, it’s terrible.

Jerre

In an article from Fox News there is a discussion of the limitations of changes that can be made to public schools, and some thoughts on "fixes".

The remarks in the article are especially true for California. Six of the UC campuses are in the top 50 universities nationwide, yet only a handful of kids that graduate from public high schools have met the entrance requirements. It is really a puzzle.

From Fox News:

Why Aren't Public Schools More Like Universities?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168107,00.html

Jerre

Jerre:

Just wanted you to know I owe a response. Things are busy right now and I'll respond this evening.

Scott

Jerre:

I am supportive of the high school exit exam because I think it’s a step toward improving student performance. It’s not the end all step, but it’s a step. I would also support a teacher investment program under NCLB where every teacher has a Masters degree in educational instruction. If we can increase the pool of graduate teachers at the high school, middle school, and elementary level, I think it’s a strong step in the right direction.

The real problem is we can’t get the district to apply for the funding and the Department of Education’s bureaucratic barriers make it almost impossible to get the funding. I would be willing to work to develop a program.

Instead of Advanced placement for college credit, we should be building in basic college curriculum in a more aggressive approach to get kids basic college credit as early as their freshman year in high school.

For instance, everyone has to take minimum qualifications such as basic math, music appreciation, science and other classes as freshman in college. I say just move those down to the high school level and have the kids complete those courses with testing benchmarks designed by the participating universities, so they don’t have to take them at the university level. This would enable the university level to start really focusing freshman on what it’s going to take to be an advanced thinker in the 21st century.

I also think we are waiting too long to get students turned on to math and science. We don’t really start getting to do Algebra until 10th grade!!! I don’t know all the facts on this, but I know students in other countries that excel in math and science are starting kids on advanced math way earlier. We need to up it and build in college curriculum way earlier…

I also think we should examine the curriculum a little closer and maybe redefine it on a smaller level. For instance, some students are awesome at certain math functions, but lack in others. (I couldn’t do a word problem, if my life depended on it.) What I’d like to see happen is to have students benchmark testing that develop strengths and weaknesses on a much more micro level. Teachers than would know where certain students are proficient and where students need improvement before the first day of school. A teacher would then be able to develop individual work plans and work groups to fully develop the skills where students are lacking.

Scott

Scott:

I appreciate that you want teachers with a higher level of education BUT you could have PhD’s in the classroom and I doubt that it would make much difference, due to the external factors like the state, the local school board, the administrators, the teachers’ union, etc.

You thought of pushing some college level work down into high school is interesting. But let’s start at where we are at today in the public high schools. Only about 20% of the local high school graduates have completed enough coursework to gain admittance to the CSU or UC system. Not a very rigorous curriculum, in my opinion. So the first step in your plan should be for all graduates to meet the CSU or UC criteria. It would take 5 to 10 years to get that far. But it will never happen, by the way, because many parents will protest that the course work is too hard. You have two choices – live with the way it is because you’re not going to be able to effect changes or choose a high school where the graduation requirements meet the CSU and UC entrance requirements. (As I said before, I’ve been through this and I chose the later.)

I’ve personally heard dozens of parents’ state that Algebra is a waste of time. Who needs Algebra in real life? That’s their quote! So you’ll need to convince a whole bunch of parents that more math is the right thing. Good luck!

As far as getting kids turned on to math and science, the way I did it was to start a FIRST (For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology) robotic team at a local high school. The kids were having so much fun building and playing with the robot they didn’t realize they were learning math and science. One kid was driving the robot up a ramp while holding a soccer ball high up over the robot’s head. When the robot toppled over backwards, you can bet that that kid (and all the others) knew exactly what “watching the center of gravity� meant after that. A teacher can talk CG all day, but there is nothing like a practical demonstration.

I appreciate that you want students to be tested for strengths and weaknesses, and to then target the weaknesses, but you’re going to need much, much smaller classes than exist now. Teachers have 180 students per day to deal with. The best the school can do is to sort of group students by overall ability, so at least they are all moving at the same pace. But what happens is that some students don’t end up in the correct group so they are either bored or cannot keep up. That’s just the way it is when you have to appeal to the whole cross-section of students.

And as for the high school exit exam, parental pressure has already caused it to be postponed 2 years, now in effect for the class of 2006. But the schools are going to have hell to pay trying to explain to the parents why Bobby or Suzy is not going to get a high school diploma. The parents will blame the schools. There is already a bill moving through the legislature to allow schools to come up with alternative criteria for awarding a diploma that is not tied to the testing because that’s what most parents want.

So as I said before, the schools are what most of the parents want them to be. Some parents want more, some want less, but the reality is if the public schools are not what you want, spend your energy to find the right school for your kids.

Jerre

Jerre:

I like the idea of the FIRST program and I think your comments are well-reasoned. What other things need to be done to accomplish better results?

What haven't we talked about?

Scott