Like I believe you feel, tolerance is as much a character issue as anything.

And I don't know if you can teach character or tolerance...

But you can teach the historical results of intolerance.

You can introduce our kids to other cultures and views. Maybe a survey like course covering many of the major cultures and religions? Bringing in people for a day/week/etc to talk about their lives... Not to preach, but to just discuss who they are and what they do. Putting a face to it...

You can take 'team building' actions, where people/kids from different cultures are mixed together to interact for a period of time. Maybe even a joint effort with private/secular schools in town...

It's easy to hate or be intolerant of what you don't know. When you can put a face, memories of a person you know, on a view, culture, religion, etc, it's harder to be intolerant...

You can lead by example (as you are).

This must be a long term project, lasting decades and become a part of the basic character of our community (lol... yeah, I know... But if I can dream, might as well dream big).

Personally I feel, the only acceptable intolerance is toward intolerance.

Okay, I'll step off my soapbox for now... :)

Thanks for posting this and opening up the discussion...

Greg,

Thanks for your kind comments, and welcome to the debate.

Personally, I feel that these "tolerance" programs fail to recognize a few facts:

1. Character and tolerance are driven at home, from parents. Kids will reflect (in many cases, just like a mirror) the attitudes, ideas and biases that they are raised with, and that they observe at home. IF parents are not engaged in teaching character, right and wrong, and in modeling ethical behavior, then the kids aren't going to magically "be tolerant".

2. What if parents aren't tolerant of the types of behavior taught in these programs? What if there are activities in these programs that parents teach their kids are bad, or are unacceptable? Is this program teaching the opposite a good thing?

3. Are these programs also meant to teach tolerance of opposing points of view, like political ideas?

4. How do these programs counter what kids see in the mass media, or at their friends house? Is MTV teaching tolerance and good character? What web sites are kids visiting?

I think Greg is right - it starts early with kids, and what do these school programs offer that will really make a difference?

Tim

Hello:

I'm struggling to find a rationale for this program. The Star lists the cause for this tolerance program being the Royal High School fight incident two Novembers ago. Are there other incidents? Is Debbie Sandland saying tolerance is not occurring on campus now? Are we mandating an across school program because of one incident?

"I'm trying to accomplish respect for all people in our school campuses and give people the tools to respect the diversity of our population to ensure all people are treated fairly, said Sandland, a registered nurse."

I'm willing to bet that 99% of students behave correctly on campus and this tolerance program is focused at the students that are behaving correctly, instead of the small minority that harbor hate against certain groups based on their characteristics.

This is yet another example where we are legislating common sense and subjecting the majority of well-behaved and well-adjusted students to classes oriented toward the lowest common denominator in our society, namely hate-mongers.

This is how I view the rationale going into this policy... "Maybe if we buy new text books and have a class, the bigots will feel better and not commit such hate acts on campus." This is the wrong-headed approach.

I have a simple proposal. Students who are involved in hate activities, violence, or other discriminatory behavior of any kind will be subject to serious consequences at the school up to total dismissal and criminal prosecution.

Why don't we create a program on campus that clearly outlines the serious consequences of such behavior to all students? Seems a lot easier and a lot cheaper than some program oriented toward purchasing already expensive textbooks that tell responsible students what they already know.

I think a stronger approach to such terrible behavior will act as a real deterrent and will do a better job of protecting all our students than some new textbooks for already overburdened teachers and students.

Scott

To answer your main question:

Yes.

What is the "tolerance" that Sandland is talking about? Why do you keep putting "tolerance" in quotes. Why are you and Mike Dunn so afraid of "tolerance"? You mention "tolerance" of religious and political thought. Do you think in Simi Valley religious groups are under attack by each other or non-believers?
What political thought is most likely to be attacked in "Simi Valley"? Scott, is being involved in a hate activitty against the law? I believe adults and youths have freedom of speech. Should they be allowed to express their opinions? ANSWER MY QUESTIONS IF YOU WANT A REAL DEBATE!

Ann,

No yelling on the blog. Last time I answered your questions, you disappeared. If you want a debate, you have one.

I say "tolerate" because no one has any idea what program is being proposed. I am awaiting answers just like you. But I don't think we should be in the business of tolerating every type of attitude or behavior.

Examples. Recently, the New York Times and Los Angeles times both printed lengthy profiles on student behavior. Drug use, racism, homosexuality and sexual activity, off and ON campus.

I don't think these things should be tolerated as they are wrong to be happening on campus, and ultimately hurtful to our youth.

Do you? I will post the links if you would like to read more.

Tim

Hi Tim,

Tolerance is a good character trait but I think it implies that people need to get over being intolerant.

Hence when I work with students on accepting other students I first stress awareness which is ideally followed by acceptance. If once aware of their peers differences they do not feel acceptance then I would strive towards tolerance with respect and peaceful co-existence.

Educational best practices today teach positive behavior reinforcement. Antecedants to behaviors are identified to circumvent negative reinforcers.

The antecedant to intolerance is students first becoming aware of another students differences and then not tolerating the other student's differences. Therefore identifying the potential of intolerance is to circumvent it by raising awareness followed by acceptance and to have a positive reinforcer (praise) towards the preferred positive behavior with ideally the first character trait to be developed are awareness-acceptance rather than stressing awareness-tolerance.

I hope you followed me on this?

Similar to "I caught you being good" rewards program that many schools implement.

My son calls it "social engineering."

Ann?

Ann?

Anyone seen Ann?

I guess she doesn't "tolerate" my point of view.

Tim

Donna,

How would what's happening in Europe today be portrayed today and incorporated into lesson plans?

It's a very interesting dynamic. Muslims are demonstrating, and burning everything in site as they feel insulted and offended. All over Europe this is happening.

They are being completely intolerant of this insult.

Feeling insulted is understandable. Demonstrating their intolerance towards the rights to create the cartoons, and then publish them is not.

How would you expect teachers to present this, what would you expect students to get from the discussion?

Tim

I would refer to what GReg Duncan said in an earlier post...

Per Greg; "But you can teach the historical results of intolerance.

You can introduce our kids to other cultures and views. Maybe a survey like course covering many of the major cultures and religions? Bringing in people for a day/week/etc to talk about their lives... Not to preach, but to just discuss who they are and what they do. Putting a face to it...

You can take 'team building' actions, where people/kids from different cultures are mixed together to interact for a period of time. Maybe even a joint effort with private/secular schools in town... end Greg

I think ideas like Greg's and other creative pro-active solutions is what the community should be exploring.
I do not purport to be able solve the world's problems. I only try to help one child at a time, this is why I am in childrne's advocacy. You know, it is better to build a boy than to mend a Man. I will leave the big picture to God.

"NCLB" Blogger,

I did not "run" away, I just don't post as often as "you".

This next "section" is quoting from you...

"Drug use, racism, HOMOSEXUALITY and sexual activity, off and ON campus."

Which of them was not like the others? Are you really comparing using drugs to being gay? Are you fine with heterosexual "displays" on campus, such as hand holding? We already know that homosexuality "on" campus offends you.

I will ask you a "few" more "questions" since you "refused", because you couldn't, answer them last time. First, Do you think in Simi Valley religious groups are under attack by each other or non-believers? "Next", What political "thought" is most likely to be attacked in "Simi Valley"?

The secret subtext to this whole thing? NCLB Blogger is afraid that the schools will promote tolerance of gay people. Just say it.

"Ann"

Wow Ann - You must teach creative writing!

The line you are quoting is from the Los Angeles Times, and BTW, it was it was you that added the emphasis, not me. If you read the NY Times article, kids today are coming up with all sorts of terminology for sexual experimentation.

I guess you and I are going to disagree on this one. I really don't support sexual activity on campus, hetero or otherwise.

Now, to answer your other questions:

"Ann: First, Do you think in Simi Valley religious groups are under attack by each other or non-believers?"

TK: I don't have any idea actually. I don't go to church, am not particularly religious and have no idea what the basis of your question is.

"Ann: "Next", What political "thought" is most likely to be attacked in "Simi Valley"?

TK: Again, I don't understand the basis of the question, but i wouldn't know what political thought might be attacked (other than mine, on this blog, which I am fine with).

Ann - thanks for your posts. there always "interesting".

Tim