Tim:

Although, I haven't read the article completely, I think the full growth of the "shock and awe" culture on our youth is a cause for grave concern. I cannot fathom the challenges parents, teachers, and administrtors are going through to compete with these types of influences.

The real challenge is how parents, teachers, and administrators can protect children and teens. I welcome any thoughts or plans of action.

All one really needs to do is go to a book store and there is a whole industry of books regarding parenting. I think this shows that we have many people out there struggling to protect our teens and kids from all sorts of ills in society.

Scott

From the time your kids get to jr. high school, they stop looking to their family for their social cues, and they start looking to their peers. That’s why the total environment at the school is so important. I always encourage parents to spend a couple of hours at the schools, especially around lunch time and see if that’s where you really want your kids to spend much of their time. The “cool” kids are the ones who depart from the norm, the ones who are daring and, perhaps, a little dangerous. Those are the kids that your kids will be around 7 or 8 hours a day.

Stuyvesant High School is different only in degree. The local public schools have many issues that I doubt most of you will appreciate. And if you think you will know every thing your kids are doing, you won’t. The public schools have to take everyone. Your social concerns are not the same as you neighbor’s. Things that you think are wrong are perfectly OK at another house. Student populations are very diverse. The staff only has time to deal with the most flagrant violations. There are too many kids to be watching all the time.

Choose your high school carefully.

Tim,
I have no opinion on this topic, but I did read this morning that AT&T gave Arnold a $25,000 donation. Three weeks later Arnold paid Kathleen Kennedy $25,000 out of the same account and this was after she voted to allow AT&T to merge with SBC. I also read that Steve Frank is angry at Tom McClintock because Frank no longer wants to support Arnold but Tom does. Do you think Arnold may lose republican support? I mean if you donate to Arnold how do you know the money won't go to Kennedy who is a democrat?

Wow, what a can of worms this article opened. It is about the "Whatever" goes for sexual orientation generation. We have desensitized sexual issues to the point that there are no inhibitions in or outside of schools. I was watching Spike TV last night on Historical Explosions and was shocked and apalled by an ad of college girls-on-girls gone wild followed by a Countrywide ad, who did the demographics on that combo. What a sad commentary. I wonder how Daddy feels about his college girl going wild on TV let alone in high school. Kids should not be allowed to be intimate with each other on school campuses regardless of orientation. School districts are being set up for lawsuits if they do not have policy about intimacy on campuses. Where do you draw the line when there is wnated or unwanted touching between students. That being said, I know it is impossible to totally regulate and certainly went on when I was in school in the 70's.

I would like to know what our school district's policy is. Anyone?

Thanks for bringing up this most important issue.

Donna Prenta

Donna: I appreciate your right to have your opinion about what the schools should do about displays of intimacy on campus but not everyone may hold your opinion. In fact, schools will face lawsuits if they do have a written policy regarding displays of intimacy because surely someone will object. Therefore, there will be no policy. Spend some time on the campus of the high school you expect your kids to attend. If you don’t like what you see, and I can certainly understand that, then you will have to choose another high school (this applies to middle schools also). High school is about more than just learning, it’s also the total environment that you are putting your kids in for seven or more hours per day. Public schools must take all kids. Some of them exhibit very poor behaviors but unless they break the law, they cannot be expelled. (And even if they are expelled from one school, they will show up the next semester at another school in the area.) I didn’t like what I saw at the middle and high school, so I chose another path for my kids.

With all due respect Donna, this wasn't going on in the 70's. I know for a fact these types of activities weren't going on when I went to school.

What was going on was the typical kissing, holding hands and of course there was sexual activity going on, but mostly in private, off campus.

In just the Times article, it described (and showed a picture) of activities at the Senior Picnic that would make you blush. Dancing, dirty dancing, licking of both sexes. This might be tough to read, but it's reality.

And what are non-graduating drop outs doing attending the senior picnic?

At the New York school, sexual activity is happening on campus, and the sex of the student or "orientation" seems irrelevant. What seems to matter is personal satisfaction, or "if it feels good - do it". What is glaring is the MIA school administration.

It's very hard to convince kids this is not OK when society in general doesn't want to accept it or debate it (read Arleigh Kidd's comments above). When MTV and Access Hollywood care more about Brad Pitt's kids than our nation's kids, and when the President speaks out against animal/human hybrids in the State of the Union instead of what's really happening on Planet Earth, then we as a people need to speak up.

Anyone prepared to speak up?

Tim

I agree this type of extreme activity wasn't going on in 70's. I did not mean to make little of it.

What I meant is can we have policy on no intimate touching of any kind in school's? Maybe I am naive.

what I asked is, is there a policy on how far a school district can allow this type of behavior or can we regulate it. I would consider this type of blatant sexual acting out in front of students who do not desire to see this to be sexual harassment. I know that employees can file sexual harassment against peers that dress too provocatively.

Good Evening:

I think we are making this strangely more difficult than it needs to be. We are not talking about hand-holding, or a kiss before gym class. At least, I'm not. We are talking about minors engaging in sexual activity on campus.

I'm just a taxpayer, but if administrators and teachers are not taking action to control minors on campus, essentally my tax dollars are actively endorsing pre-marital teenage sexual promiscuity on school campuses. Is this acceptable to anyone in this discussion?

This is absolutely unacceptable to me and should fall under the A1 disciplinary act in the education code discussing sexual assault. We all know that the definition of consensual sexual behavior changes for minors. Guardians, ie teachers and administrators, act in the parental role on campus. The concept of "consensual" is less so for minors.

Let me ask, would we allow consensual knife fights between students on campus? Of course not...

Students do not determine the moral standard, adults do.

Adults have a right and moral responsibility to regulate here. And, if anyone sued because we stopped teenagers from having sex on campuses by strict enforcement, I'd welcome that fight. This is a position that is absolutely non-negotiable. The community has a right to know this isn't happening on our campuses.

Administrators and Teachers have an obligation to ensure the community's will in this regard.

Minors to some degree are unable to determine what is good for them and what is bad for them, thus parental rights should apply here. This is why we have a compulsory education system to help minors develop good judgement and mature into productive citizens.

If schools are not advancing and enhancing parental rights and responsibilities, I would recommend we close the school.

Let me ask, How does consensual sex on campus during school hours achieve the objective of producing adults of good character and productive citizens? It doesn't.

The state and in this case the school district absolutely has a compelling interest here and should regulate such behavior on campus with immediate suspension and mandatory recommendation for expulsion.

I fear our tenderness for being open-minded is clouding good judgement here.

Scott

I blame Arnold, he set a bad example by gropping all those women. So Tim, will Arnold lose conservative republican support in his race for governor?

I blame all of us Arleigh. These are our schools, and look what's happened to them.

Arleigh, as an educator, do you think it’s in the best interest of our youth to engage in sex acts, or even simulated sex acts on campus? Do you think that students should be subjected to seeing, or even knowing that this behavior is going on at their campus? What type of intervention on the side of administrators do you support? Do you think that campus leaders have a legal responsibility to take action? And what action would that be?

The LA Times on their report on Birmingham High says the class of 2005 entered school in 9th grade with 1700 students, but only 600 graduated. What steps do you think (or anybody?) think should be taken to help these kids before they drop out of school (and subsequently life's opportunities) for good?

Tim Keaney

Conejo District named in sex assault suit
30 school officials, teachers and administrators are also defendants

By Raul Hernandez, rhernandez@VenturaCountyStar.com
February 9, 2006

The parent of one of the two boys who were allegedly sexually abused by two schoolmates at Meadows Elementary School in Thousand Oaks filed a lawsuit this week against the school district.

The lawsuit filed in Ventura County Superior Court on Tuesday alleges that when their son was 9, he was repeatedly bullied, sexually harassed and sexually assaulted by two classmates at school during the 2004-05 school year.

Attorney David Ring, who is representing the boy's mother, said on Wednesday that there were 10 to 20 incidents. He said school administrators and teachers knew about the incidents and didn't do anything to stop the two alleged schoolyard bullies from sexually and physically abusing the boy, who was in the fourth grade, and his friend.

"Said misconduct occurred out in the open on the playground and sports field, as well as in the boys' restroom," the 11-page lawsuit states.

The lawsuit seeks an unspecified amount of damages along with legal fees and court costs.

The Conejo Valley Unified School District is named as one of the defendants in the lawsuit along with 30 unnamed school officials, teachers and administrators.

School district Superintendent Robert Fraisse couldn't be reached for comment.

Ring said school teachers and officials were also aware that this schoolyard bully had allegedly sexually and physically abused other students during the 2003-04 school year.

School officials, however, decided to handle this matter "informally" during the 2003-04 school year, said Ring. He claims that principal Bradley Miles was told of at least one incident involving the two victims during the 2004-05 school year.

Miles faced criminal charges after he was accused of failing to report suspected child sexual/physical abuse of the two students. The charges against Miles were dismissed by Ventura County Superior Court Judge Arturo Gutierrez last month after the District Attorney's Office filed a motion stating that it didn't intend to prosecute the case.

Prosecutor Lisa Lyytikainen had said it was unclear whether Miles knew about the alleged sexual abuse.

Miles' lawyer, Philip Dunn, said his client was innocent. School officials and administrators did what they were supposed to do in the case involving the two boys, Dunn had said.

Good Morning:

While, it is way too early to be judge, jury, and executioner, I think one major factor in this story and the one above, is the real need to be proactive in responding to complaints.

I am concerned that school officials do not know whether they can act or whether they should act.

On an issue like the above, it is much better to act and behave on the side of caution, then to handle it informally or hope it goes away.

20 documented incidents is way too many to behave informally.

It appears we are looking at multiple incidents over a two year period. Handling such incidents "informally" also raises questions whether it was in compliance with policy, procedure, and the law.

"School officials, however, decided to handle this matter "informally" during the 2003-04 school year, said Ring. He claims that principal Bradley Miles was told of at least one incident involving the two victims during the 2004-05 school year."

Like everyone else, I will wait for more information, but this certainly raises questions as to whether school officials have the tools and the will to be proactive in protecting kids.

Scott

Tim,
First of all, no, kids should not be allowed to engage in innapropriate activities on campus. In terms of dropouts the State needs to provide more funding for intervention programs at all levels of education. In terms of Conejo the D.A. dropped this case. As we all know anyone can sue for anything, let's see what the end result is. In my experience the Courts do not always back up schools when they have get tough policies. I was at Valley View when a student was tragically killed after school. The next year we instituted a strict dress code and a Judge threw it out when one parent complained.

It’s important to note that criminal charges against Principal Miles after he was accused of failing to report suspected child sexual/physical abuse of the two students were dismissed. It’s virtually impossible to sustain charges like this, primarily because it’s virtually impossible to write a law that everyone understands and can be enforced.

You folks are uninformed. There is sex going on at most every high school, if not daily then at least a few times a week. What do you expect when you have more than 2000 kids in one place? And the middle schools are not immune to this either. And the idea of “in local parens” went out in the 70’s, after the schools would sued repeatedly by parents who were not happy with their actions. So don’t depend on the public schools to “advance and enhance parental rights and responsibilities”. Now, private schools are a different matter.

The analogy of comparing sexual contact with knife fights just does not hold water. Those are two entirely different situations.

Behavior is a very tricky area to police. What’s “good and moral” to one adult can be totally different for someone else. The school staff tries not to see what’s going on because it’s a “no win” situation for them. They will be condemned by the administration or the school board or the parents, guaranteed.

Try to write a regulation that can be enforced. And if someone is expelled they will just show up at another school in the district the next semester. Public schools have to meet the approval of all of the public and as a result, standards are set at the least common denominator.

Jerre:

If being informed like you is allowing behavior to happen because it's already happening, I'd like to stay uninformed.

I'm happily ignorant that we should try our best to stop sexual activity on campus.

Scott

Jerre,
Did you read in the LA Daily News that public school students are doing better than private, or charter, students in math?

Arleigh:

Can you post a link. I can't find this study on the Daily News website.

Scott

I am by no means uninformed and have seen more than most people. I have worked as a court advocate and as a private children's advocate where the majority of my clients were emotionally disturbed teens.

Teens are experimenting with drugs and alcohol at 9-11. Teens believe that oral sex is safe sex and yes this goes on in middle school. I have toured our juvenile justice facilities and attended Action and United Parents meetings. I have also served on the Ventura County Mental Health Board. Sometimes I wish I was less informed. Nothing shocks me, parents from all over the state call me.

When my son entered middle school I thought I would try to shelter him, I was not ready to let go. He got his first porn magazine given to him at the private school, it happens no one is insulated. I am sure that if he had gone to public school he would have also gotten a copy there or possibly even in grade school.

I ultimately have chosen public school for my children because I believe it is a better education to prepare our children for the "Public" that they live in.

I have absolutely no problem with parents choosing private school if it meets there childs and families needs. I have actually advocated on behalf of students if I felt a private/non-public school was a more appropriate for a students special needs education.

I have worked and volunteered in many HS and MS. I have also visited many school district's and private schools from San Diego to Santa Barbara so I see what goes on. I believe the majority of students act fine in school but kids will always test their boundaries. That is why adults have to set and keep boundaries, so the kids can learn what is and isn't acceptable.

Would it be acceptable for employees to act and talk sexually explicit. No. what is our job in education, to teach kids how to become independent, productive citizens. If you are expelled from school or fired from work you will not be a productive citizen..

There will always be students "sneaking around" where they know they are participating in behaviors that are not allowed.

We need to explore limiting physical intimacy ie. touching. I know it is tough, with kids it needs to be black and white no middle or they will always find a way to get around the rules. Parents and schools need to be a united front.

There should be agreements and terms of student behavior that students and parents sign outlined in the student handbook the first day of school. If an agreement is broken the consequence should also be in the student handbook that parents and students sign as well. This is already being done as far as weapons, drugs on campus. There is probably already some kind of policy in the SVUSD but I am currently not up to date on it, I will follow through on finding out.

My recollection of the t-shirt issue at Valley View was that the student was not allowed to wear a t-shirt that had an American Eagle on it and had to put it on inside out because students couldn't weat any type of picture. This kicked off a heated debate about requiring uniforms. Dress code is a whole other can of worms.

Touching at school should not be allowed at school period, no debate. The sad part about this is that students do hug each other for many reasons to show support etc. It is sad that a few students with extrme behaviors make it hard for all students.

NCLB Blogger I posted a response to "you" under "tolerance" post. Please respond by answering questions, not dodging them.

Ann,

And I have responded - and used lots of "*".

Tim

Like Scott, I, too, would like to read that article that Arleigh cites where public school students are doing better than private school students in math.

However, I would find it hard to believe, on a general basis. It is widely reported that 100,000 high school seniors, more than 20% of the state’s seniors, have not yet passed the high school exit exam, which contains math problems up thru Algebra 1 (ninth grade material). Most private school students take at least 3 years of math in high school. Further, it is also reported by CSUN that more than 50% of freshmen have to take remedial math just to get up to the standards for entering freshmen. I would venture to say that most of the CSUN freshman come from the local high schools.

For my kids, I choose high schools where the graduation requirements equaled the UC entrance requirements. I don’t know of any public high school where that is true. Can public high school students get all the courses necessary to meet UC attendance requirements? Of course they can, and about one in six students make it. So as a parent you have to ask yourself, if you want your kids to go to college, do you want you kids at a high school where only one in six make it or where 6 in 6 make it? It’s all about the environment and what other kids are doing.

As far as Donna’s son getting a porn magazine handed to him at the private school, the difference is this. If the school administration knows who the source of the magazine was, that student will most likely be dismissed – gone from the school. At a public school, the student would probably be “counseled”, maybe suspended for a couple of days, but that student would be right back at the school in a couple of days. At my kids’ high schools, a handful of kids were dismissed each year for some infraction, so at least the bad examples were no longer around.

I don’t know how a rule can be written that limits physical intimacy (touching). Parents and schools will never present a united front because of the wide-spread opinions of what is acceptable to the parents. As Arleigh pointed out, even a simple dress code was unenforceable due to the complaint of one parent.

You have a choice, one of the most important ones you will ever make because it sets the stage for the rest of your student’s life. You can choose a free public education, and the problems that go along with that, or you can choose a private education, where the vision and rules may more closely conform to your own thoughts.

Jerre,

Oh Please, the private Christian school knew who distributed the magazine and no the kids were not dismissed. Even I think that dismissing or expelling a middle school student because they got a hold of porn is extreme and apparently so did the private Christian school. It is a mistake that the kids made and a learning experience to teach kids what is and isn't acceptable. It is normal for kids to be curious, the real question is how did the minor child get the porn in the first place. I would be taking a close look at the parents if I was an administrator of the private school. That is where the difference lies, you can call the parents into the principals office and confront them on how their child got a hold of porn and ask them directly if they have it in their house etc. this would be out of line in a public school. Multiple infractions of students should be dealt with more harshly.

My son had been in GATE public school until he went to the private school for seventh grade. After a semeter he was so frustrated that he was not learning anything new that I took a copy of the math book and brought it to his 6th grade GATE teacher in public school and he informed me that my son had mastered those skills more than a year age. I confronted the private school administration about challenging my son and they said they did not teach to advanced or slow students that they were not equipped to be diverse. This is the same administrator that assured me when we sent him there that they could handle the education of a GATE student.

My son graduated from public high school and received the Governor's Golden State Scholarshare award. He is now studying to become a teacher, possibly high school math.

Jerre,

Have you asked yourself what happened to the "bad examples" dismissed students from your child's school. Do you think these kids should just be discarded and thrown to wander the streets. In public school we don't give up on kids even if they are incarcerated we educate them in jail and try to rehabilitate them.

My heart aches when I see students "dismissed." I find private schools for troubled teens to save their lives one child at a time. I have seen these young people turn their lives around and become productive, happy and healthy young adults because someone believed in them.

Public schools pay to save the lives of dismissed students and have sent them to special boarding schools for emotionally disturbed children at residential treatment facilities to save them educate them and give them a chance to be a successful person. It is much more cost effective to the tax payers to rehabilitate a child than to house them as career criminals.

I prefer my tax dollars to go to the students not the prisons.

We can not just judge others it is not that simple.

When your school is exclusionary it is easy to have simple rules because you do not accept anyone that is not "normal."

Congratulations on your son's success! It is commendable. Public school was obviously the right choice for him. He is one of the six to have enough credits to move on. But where are the other five? I just chose to go with the odds. The high school my son went to seems to be different than the one your son went to. Based upon the results of the entrance exam, he was accelerated into a sophmore level class (as a freshman). This enabled him to take even higher level classes later. So I can only speak for the school that he went to, and the one my daughter went to. Neither earned a Golden State Scholarshare award, but it may not have been available to private school students.

Donna:

While I'm in favor of intervention programs and giving as much as we can to identify and prevent at-risk behavior in students to help them improve their lives, I still think there should be severe penalties for crimes on campus.

I think I've shared many times my desire to have more teen programs and more opportunities for at-risk teens, but I draw the line when crimes are committed.

In effect, I will stop building prisons when people stop committing crimes. Students need to know they are responsible for their actions. We have a responsibility to keep students safe on campus and my faith in total rehabilitation is not as certain as yours.

Public schools should be absolutely safe and if a student commits a crime or harms another student or has sex on campus, suspension followed by an expulsion hearing should be swift and certain.

No parent, student, teacher, or administrator should feel their school is unsafe and every action by the school leadership needs to occur to make sure this happens.

I look forward to your thoughts.

Scott

Wow...

I think we're all living in various realities here, and the point that some seem to be missing, is the ultimate reality.

Many kids are already wandering streets, or hallways or malls, because:

1. Many parents have either abdicated their responsibilities

2. Schools (i.e. society) are not picking up the slack and holding kids accountable.

Read again from the Los Angeles Times Article on Birmingham High:
---

After he missed algebra 27 times, his football coach threatened to cut his playing time. When his mother discovered he had failed algebra and English, she hired a tutor. No one in his family had graduated from high school. But his single mother was a little better off now, earning extra income from real estate investments. She was determined to see her son graduate.

Except for Isaac and David, the Outsiders say they had little contact with teachers and almost none with counselors.

One by one, they discovered how easy it was to fade into the background.

Sophomore year came and went like a fad.

The school listed all of the Outsiders as "active" 10th-graders even though they skipped to play video games, visit friends at another school or sleep. Two racked up more than 63 absences in first period. Nine failed math. Nine failed English.

"I never said 'hi.' I never said 'bye.' I never said 'can I see you?' " Andy said of his counselors. "They're not going to keep track of all those kids."

A Birmingham counselor, Ana Martinez, advised a couple of the Outsiders, including Andy. She vaguely remembers the soft-spoken Guatemalan boy. Martinez met with his mom at least once. Andy continued to struggle.

"There's only so much you can do," Martinez said.

Most of the parents had no idea what jeopardy their children were in. Few had graduated from high school themselves and the boys took pains to hide their failures.

---end---

Society needs to do a better job of creating innovative solutions to keep kids in school and to keep them engaged and motivated when they are their. The Technology exists to track attendance and whereabouts at all times, while at the same time informing parents and guardians of trouble.

One high schooler was absent 63 times from first period. 63 TIMES!!! 30-40 wasn't enough to motivate someone in authority to act?

Leadership means being unpopular and making long-term investments in infrastructure to give kids the best learning experience possible. It means ridding our public schools of crime, grafitti, disrespect and lawlessness.

In other words, it requires leaders to do their jobs.

Tim Keaney

Tim:

Here is a statistic from the Department of Justice.

Annually, from 1999 through 2003, teachers were the victims of approximately 183,000 total nonfatal crimes at school, including 119,000 thefts and 65,000 violent crimes.

That's right, teachers are affected by 65,000 violent crimes annually at school according to the Department of Justice. It's not just about creating a safe environment for students, but one for teachers who are affected by a signifigant amount of violent crime annually.

Scott

Scott and Tim,

Understood! It is just more complicated.

I understand that when I talk about individual cases where a child has an intense intervention and special program this is a rare incident and an extrmely lucky child. I understand that most kids slip through the cracks, it happens and a cycle begins for the next generation which is even more difficult to break.

With a lot of real hard work, sacrafice, early identification and intervention we can break the cycle.

The true challenge is in breaking the cycle and making all children's welfare the political will of the people. Children are long term products of their environment.

That is really the place to start, how do we make the well being of all children inportant without pointing fingers and placing blame.

Hey, who is going to pay into SS when I need to retire!!

The critical issue is in breaking the cycle of failure and helping children to improve on each generation.

I almost consider the sexual exploits of students that originally started this debate inconsequential, but before I take heat for that statement I will back peddle and say they are not inconsequintial, that the students bizarre behaviors are yet another commentary of our state of affairs.

Clearly, more counselors at all levels of school would be great, but I don’t think the money will ever be found to do this. High school counselors at public schools have between 400 and 600 students to watch over. You can advocate until you’re blue in the face but I doubt that it will get much better. Or you can send your kid to a private high school where the ratio at my kids’ schools was 1 counselor to 100 kids. And that was for each grade level!

I’ll ask another question here, but it might be the subject of a separate blog.

Why do public school teachers send their own kids to private schools at a rate twice the general population?

Jerre,

Would you rather pay tuition or taxes. I do not mean to ask this lightly. I am a conservative and yet I paid nearly six figures in taxes last year which I do not regret. that being said, I am not against paying for private school regardless of the taxes we pay but I still weigh all issues and see public school for my immediate families needs to be the best alternative.

If any of my children had come to me and wanted to attend private school or I felt it would be good for them to reach their best potential I would not hesitate to send them to a private school. Even though they may have not come to me believe me I did research it, I was looking into the Cate and Thacher school when my sons were in elementary school. My boys did not desire or need it, I would have welcomed sending them to an ivy-league boarding school it would have made my job in some ways easier. My sons rejected that idea or even the notion.

Looking back public school was the best possible education for their preparation to work with the public and succeed in life.

Jerre,
Can you prove that public school teachers send their kids to private school at twice the rate? Where is the proof? Callifornia funds its schools at 43rd in the Nation as reported by Education Weekly, that's a fact! My kids go to public school in Simi and are getting a great education, that's a fact! Go on the Daily News website and go to search for the article showing public school kids do better in math. Donna you will find on this blog that Tim only tends to blog on the negatives in education, he somehow misses the good things going on. Jerre ran for school board in Simi but he seems to hate public schools. Makes you wonder.

Yeah, I guess I should stop my yapping about drop out rates, inadequate facilities, inadequate technology and sex on campus. I am such a downer!

Arleigh - I'll make you a deal. You post the EXACT link to the Daily News story about public school students beating private and charter school students in math, and I'll not only post it as it's own topic, I'll let YOU guest blog about it!

The topic is yours... Bring it.

Tim

I will locate it. But I think you just admitted you mainly focus on the bad and ignore the good.

Jerre,

What private school are you talking so much about? They seemed to be paradise on Earth to you. You don't work in admissions there do you?

Well, let me start answering the questions. Donna, for you and your kids public school was the best choice, and that’s ok by me. You tried one private school and it did not meet your expectations. Much of this blog deal with the shortcomings of public schools and I blog to point out the other choices. I would have preferred that the taxes I paid would have provided a decent school system, but it didn’t. While my friends were driving new cars and taking nice vacations, I paid tuition – my choice. My kids started in public school but switched to private school at middle school. All of the shortcomings discussed in the blog were the same issues I was dealing with – except that it was 15 years ago. It is my observation that some things have only gotten worse at the public schools – student discipline, parental involvement, number of counselors and course content. And if this blog is going on 15 years from now, the issues will be the same.

Arleigh, thanks for asking the source of my information about public school teachers sending their kids to private schools at twice the rate of the general populations. I would have been disappointed it you didn’t ask. There was an article in the Washington Times, September 22, 2004, entitled “Public schools no place for teachers’ kids”. Let me quote from the article. “Nationwide, public school teachers are almost twice as likely as other parents to choose private school for their own children”. “Public school teachers told the Fordham Institute’s surveyors that private and religious schools impose greater discipline, achieve higher academic achievement and offer overall a better atmosphere”. Both NEA and AFT declined to comment. “We can assume that no one knows the condition and quality of public schools better than the teachers who work in them every day”. Arleigh, your comment please, why are public school teachers almost twice as likely as other parents to choose private school for their own children?

Brian, the private schools I talk about so much are in the San Fernando Valley. They are a paradise, I was very satisfied. Both of my kids went directly into the UC system, both to the same school, a school ranked in the top 50 of all colleges nationwide. No, I do not work in admissions there or any school. I am a lowly manufacturing worker.

I love this blog!

Oh, I forgot one thing. Arleigh, I ran for the school board for one purpose -- to bring to public school all the things that are so great at private schools. In fact, those are the same things that the public school teachers mentioned when choosing to send their kids to private school -- greater discipline, higher academic achievement and overall a better atmosphere.

Jerre,

I am curious how your kids dealt with the extremely liberal culture of the UC schools. My friends sons who went to private Catholic Schools their whole lives and were inundated with the wild parties their freshman year at UC. They also go to Mexico over their breaks to continue the partying. The big question between the sons "is the pot better at UCSB or UCSC."

Was it a shock for your kids to adjust to the liberal climate after leading such a sheltered private school experience? I ask this with all sincerity I do not mean to be rude.

My second son was accepted at Humboldt State for the Oceanography program and I was shocked at the blatant public displays of smoking pot in the town square with absolutely no inhibition. I talked to two older couples that had just left the movie theater and asked them if this was normal behavior, come to find out two of the individuals were college professors. Their response was that as long as the students worked hard during the week at school they did not have a problem with their partying outside of the classroom.

To my sons credit he told me "Wow, Mom you would have to be a pretty emotionally healthy individual to go to school here." He chose to wait and go to community college.

The year before my son had attended Occidental College after his Junior year in HS to study college level Oceanology for six weeks (a big honor) and did research on their marine vessel. We sent him there to help him to experience time away from home before he went away to college and help him to know if he was prepared to attend college with extremely competitive students at an Ivy league college like Occidental or a UC. He told me that the other young men pressured the girls terribly for sex and that there was drug use there. He stood up to them and told them to back off from the girls and was ostracized by the boys and then just hung out with the girls. It was difficult for him, he is an extremely sensitive young man and was taught by us to respect young women.

My same son had attended a private therapeutic boarding school during 7-9 grade because of emotional difficulty in his difficult teen years. He later graduated from a SV public school. Yes, two of my sons attended two different private schools, one was a local christian school for one semester(that couldn't handle a GATE student) and the other a private boarding school for two years. My remaining two children attend public school. My daughter is in special ed. so a private school would not accept her even if I wanted her there (which I do not.)

I still believe wholeheartedly in the public school experience. I also believe that if a parent gives enriching experiences to the best of their ability public school can be the best choice. All children's needs are unique.

Do not forget that the article that we are blogging about was a "private school."

I do not expect all parents to parent in the same way. We still have a responsibility as a society to invest in the highest quality education for all students.

In response to you saying you ran for school board to share your children's positive experieinces in a private school, that is commendable if that was your intent. I believe it is always good to keep an open mind and make informed decisions and that yes we can all learn from each other. My family certainly learned a lot from my sons boarding school experience that helped us to better parent our other three children.

Getting into a UC or Ivy league shcool is not a guarantee to success. I agree it does have the potential for success. I have had friends whose children attended UCLA and chose to leave and attend Moorpark because the professors there were more attentive and took a personal interest in the students. The parents of those students also believed that the UC experienc was too liberal for their sons right out of HS who had been pretty sheltered in public schools of SV for the last two years, prior to that they were Great Britan citizens.

I am committed to my community and the highest quality of education we can provide for all students. It is imperative that no child is cast out. I support all parents choices of how and where to educate their children. Some parents do not have the luxary of choosing a private school so please do not make them feel guilty we are doing the best we can with the resources we have.

Tim,
You can read the article on public school students doing better at math at http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=126954
Jerre,
I remember reading that the article you quoted used flawed logic and data and was later found to be false. I will try and find the article for you. Of course after reading the article above I think you will find that kids are doing better in math in public schools. Of course, most private schools are scared to reveal their testing data. In Florida they found that over 90% of the kids with vouchers were rejected when they tried to get into a private school. The Florida Supreme Court threw out vouchers because the private schools would not allow themselves to be held accountable the way public schools in Florida are, that meant they could not show the taxpayer that the money was not being mis-spent. Why do you think private schools, that can pick and choose their students, would be afraid to reveal their data? Now that's what I call bringing it Tim.

I asked Norm Walker once if his school would accept a voucher for my daughter to attend the private school he was working for at one time. That would mean for 5000-6000 they would have to educate her, and that would include her full-time aide, physical, occupational and speech therapy. He told me she could not attend his private school. I informed him if his school was discriminatory based on disability they should not ba allowed to accept vouchers/tax payers $. There in lies the problem with the voucher system. Sure you can do more with less, kind of like offering cheaper health insurance if you have no pre-existing illnesses.

If you give vouchers to students to attend private schools you will bankrupt the public school system because they will be left with the most expensive students to educate. Simple-accept vouchers, accepts any student regardless of the need to provide gifted or special ed.

I think this is a great study and I'm glad I've had a chance to read through it.

To me, this proves that the 2001 No Child Left behind Act's accountability standards are working. Mandatory testing mixed with Adequate Yearly progress measurements to push for further success are improving scores. By 2003, we are seeing students in public schools doing just as well as ones in private, if not better. We never saw this prior to NCLB.

Say what you will about NCLB, but public school students are now improving in Math, which they weren't prior to 2001....

Thanks Arleigh.

Scott

Jerre:

Is the reason you oppose the High School Exit exam because we have seen by Arleigh's study that NCLB testing and accountability have improved Math scores beyond private school levels?

Scott

Donna,

Replace the word liberal in your understanding of UC and CSU schools with wild. It is not a liberal or conservative thing that makes a pledge for a frat do wild things. Ask President Bush.

Brian,

I hope you're kidding. FRATS make up like 5% of the college population..

Arleigh - looks like I might owe you a guest blog, but if Scott is right, you sure you want it?

Tim

Tim:

This is from Education Week. Not only is nationwide testing and accountability improving core competency beyond private school levels, Civil Rights groups are backing the law because they see the previous system as leaving disadvantaged students behind.

The NAACP and other civil rights groups see NCLB as the only opportunity to advance disadvantaged students.

"Civil Rights Groups Back NCLB Law in Suit
February 8, 2006

Jeff Archer
Education Week

The Connecticut NAACP, on behalf of three minority students in high-poverty schools, filed papers in federal court in New Haven, Conn., on Jan. 30, asking the judge in the Connecticut v. Spellings case to allow the group to intervene on the side of the U.S. Department of Education.

Also providing legal support for the effort are lawyers from three national groups: the Citizens' Commission on Civil Rights and the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, both based in Washington; and the national office of the NAACP in Baltimore....

Dennis C. Hayes, the general counsel at the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People's Baltimore headquarters said allowing Connecticut to opt out of such a critical part of the federal law would set a dangerous precedent by encouraging policymakers elsewhere to do the same.

"If we view No Child Left Behind in terms of civil rights, then we are concerned about a state begging to be excused from participating or complying with an act intended to help disadvantaged people," he said. "

Tim:

Do you think education is a civil right?

Arleigh:

What do you think of the NAACP's defense of NCLB?

Scott

Sorry for the delay in responding, some days are busier than others.

Donna: I found the UC experience more liberal than I would prefer. I’m sure that I don’t know every thing that happened to my kids at Davis. I am relieved that I never got a call from the Dean of Students or the Davis Police Department. Still, my daughter finished in 4 years with a double major, and spent a quarter at UCDC, the UC campus in Washington, DC. They both talked about some of the wild happenings at school. Actually, the city of Davis reminds me a lot of Simi – a small town In the middle of farm land), visible police presence, and good adherence to laws. I remember that the speed limit is 30 in town so I made a habit of driving around in second gear to make sure I didn’t go to fast. Ahh, good times.

It seems as though colleges are more liberal than the general population. I remember reading somewhere that around 90% of college professors characterize themselves as “liberal”, so it’s hard to get away from that point of view. My daughter was a Poli Sci major and she wanted to do an internship in the political area. I was able to hook her up with Bob Hertzberg’s office, when he was Speaker of the Assembly. Bob is a Democrat.

Now, Arleigh, if you are willing to believe a study that was “adjusted”, well, whatever makes your boat float. With a couple of “adjustments” Kerry would be president. And my Suburban gets 30 miles to the gallon, with a couple of “adjustments”. But the article comes right out and says that the Catholic school kids scored 14.3 point higher than public school kids. You want your kids in public school and that’s where they are. Your buddy, Bill Clinton, supported public schools 110%, but he sent Chelsea to a private school in DC. Why? One of the tipping points for me came when I was talking to a sixth grade teacher at my kids’ public elementary school. I knew he lived in the area, so one day we were talking and I asked him where his kids went to school. He pointed to the private elementary school across the street. The next year, that’s where my kids went. The fact of the matter is that public school teachers are more likely to send their kids to private schools than the general public, in some cities as much as five times the rate. Maybe Bill Clinton can help you with your answer.

Why are you so interested in private school testing data? The proof is in the pudding! Their graduates go on to highly ranked colleges. Most private high schools are college prep, therefore their graduation requirements equal the highest level college entrance requirements. That is not true for the local high schools.

Scott: I oppose the high school exit exam because 1 in 5 is going to fail it. That’s going to hurt the student’s self-esteem, and it’s going to make the parents really mad. The parents will blame the teachers, but it’s not the teachers’ fault.

Jerre,
Learn to read. I now quote from the study, "The study found that while raw scores of fourth graders in Roman Catholic schools, for example, were 14.3 points higher than those in public schools, when adjustments were made for students backgrounds, those in Catholic schools scored 3.4 points lower than those in public schools. A spokewoman for the National Catholic Education Association did not respond to requests for comment." "The study also found that charter schools, privately operated and publicly financed, did significantly worse than public schools in fourth grade, once student populations were taken into account." Also Jerre I don't know President Clinton so I do not consider him my "buddy". This is a free country Jerre, if the President or anyone else wants to pay for a private school education, even if it is not as good as a public one, (see study), that is their right as a citizen of this great country. I realize your good friend W. hates people having freedoms, domestic spying, torture, lying about knowing Jack Abramhoff, Abu Gharib, lying about WMD's in Iraq, Enron, secret energy meetings to allow the big oil companies to sock us at the pump, etc, etc.
Tim, I have always said the goals of NCLB were noble, my disagreement is in the lack of funding that was guaranteed in the law and then not fulfilled. Bush wants to cut it by even more next year so more money is available for Halliburton. I think this is also already covering what I would cover in a guest blog.

Arleigh, it is laughable that you have to resort to “adjusted” data to get the result you want. But, whatever it takes to make you happy. I’m surprised that you intimate that President Clinton made a poor choice in sending Chelsea to a private school. Why would the President send his child to an inferior school?

Now, back to the other question. Why are your teachers more inclined than the average parent to send their own kids to private school?

Jerre,

Below is an article on the High School Exit exam. I'd like your's and Arleigh's thoughts on it. To me, it helps increase core competency and improves instruction orientation. It might be tough for a couple years on students, but I think it'll improve public education in the long run.

High School Exit Exam Has Improved Learning
by Lance T. Izumi

SACRAMENTO, CA – In a recent speech, Wayne Johnson, president of the California Teachers Association (CTA), blared, "We have to fight to end these absurd tests that are biased, racist, and unfairly define kids and teachers as failures" The CTA is sponsoring legislation that would effectively eliminate the state's high-school exit exam. A new study, however, shows that the exit exam has improved the quality of instruction.

The high school exit exam was first administered in 2001 to students in the class of 2004, the first required to pass the exam as a prerequisite for getting a diploma. Although students will have multiple opportunities to pass, low initial passage rates have caused groups like the CTA to fight the exam. The legislation that created the exam, however, also mandated an independent evaluation of it. That evaluation, conducted by the Human Resources Research Organization, has just been released and supports key aspects of the exam.

First, after reviewing testing guidelines laid down by the American Educational Research Association, the American Psychological Association, and the National Council for Measurement in Education, the evaluation concluded that the exit exam "meets all of the test standards for use as a graduation requirement."

More interesting is the fact that the exit exam has served as an incentive for schools to implement the state's rigorous academic content standards. Since the exit exam is aligned with the standards, which cover core subjects such as English, math, science, and social studies, schools that want their students to pass should be emphasizing the standards in classroom instruction. The evaluation found that the exam "has been a major factor leading to dramatically increased coverage of the California Content Standards at both the high school and middle school levels and to development or improvement of courses providing help for students who have difficulty mastering these standards."

According to the evaluation, in 1999 only about 20 percent of schools surveyed in the report covered at least three-quarters of the standards, whereas in the current school year more than 80 percent of the schools reported such in-depth coverage. The report found that schools with high levels of standards coverage had much higher passage rates on the exit exam than schools that had not implemented the standards as intensely. For example, on the English portion, 100 percent of the schools in the survey which had high levels of standards coverage had passage rates of 75 percent or greater. In contrast, only 59 percent of schools that had lower standards coverage had passing rates of 75 percent or greater.

Many critics of the exit exam argue that "low quality" teachers at poor urban schools are the reason for bad instruction and poor passage rates. However, according to the report's authors: "We also investigated the possible impact of teacher qualifications, defined by their credentials and years of experience, and professional development programs for the teachers on the effectiveness of standards-based instruction. There was no clear evidence that teacher qualification was an important factor."

The report's findings indicate that the high-school exit exam has improved the quality of instruction for students, which in turn will improve their achievement. Giving in to the doomsayers will end up only hurting students.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lance T. Izumi is a Senior Fellow in California Studies and Director of Education Studies at the Pacific Research Institute in San Francisco. He can be reached via email at lizumi@pacificresearch.org.

Jerre,
Like I said, the study you sited was found to be false and based on bad data. So why do you think your hero Dick Cheney tried to cover up this shooting Jerre?

I thought this blog was about the "whatever" generation.

I found it sad to day to read that parents and students that were polled were not concerned with the state of our math and science education for students. It is not necessarily that the classesa re not offered but rather that students are not taking the courses.

Re; Star Focus on Education stats. Wow, only 20% of SVUSD 2003-2004 graduates qualified for UC or CSU compared to other districts like Fillmore 41.9 % Oxnard 29.6%, CVUSD 50%, Moorpark 32.7% the onbly other school district lower Santa Paula 13.9%.

Donna,

Those are truly disturbing stats. Can you post a link to the story? I am having trouble finding it with the Star's new search tool.

Tim

Hello:

I have seen this statistic on the Department of Education website a year or so back. I want to say this can be corrected with a concerted effort focused on math and science education in Simi Valley.

To me, it's all based on incentives. I think we should look at the stipend program the district currently uses to pay JV sports coaches and assistant coaches. I think we should take the stipend system and apply it to math and science teachers.

We should ask math and science teachers to set a 5 year plan of where they want to see their department go in terms of student achievement. Then, we design the stipend bonus system to pay bonuses to teachers who meet their own goals. We write it into the collective bargaining agreement, so as not to violate EERA.

I want to make it clear that this isn't pay for performance. This is the district pushing to increase math and science competencies through an additional bonus system with goals for success set by the math and science teachers in the field.

Scott

Did any of you read the story in the Star last Friday as well as the calander section today about the new Math or Science scholarship program for SVUSD students?

For those of you with children in 3-5th grade watch for a flier to come home in your kids backpack with the informationm below.

I believe that the whole community should invest in all children, schools, businesses, individuals, together we can make a difference.

Attention Future Scientists & Mathematicians

Have you ever Dreamed of going to Summer Camp to Learn about Science or Math? Your Dream can come true! The Prenta Family is sponsoring a SVUSD student entering 4th-6th Grade for School Year 2006-2007 to attend Summer Camp for a full or partial scholarship of $1000.00.
Would you like to be an Astronaut, Physicist or Astrologist? You could attend Sally Ride Science Camp, NASA-Space Camp or Astro Camp-Idyllwild. Do you dream of becoming a Marine Biologist, Oceanographer or Ecologist? You could attend the Catalina Island Marine Institute or Seaworld-San Diego Adventure Camp. Is computer programming your dream? How about attending iD Tech Camp at CLU or Pepperdine or Education Unlimited’s Computer Camp. You can also research other math or science camps.
The rules of the contest are:

1. Write an essay on why you want to attend camp and what area of math or science it will help you to learn.
2. Submit a teacher recommendation for you to attend camp.
3. Research a camp that you want to attend and provide that research along with your essay.
4. Have written permission and a referral from your parents or guardian to attend your camp of choice and signed approval for picture and press release.
5. Be able to attend camp on the dates that you research during the Summer of 2006.
6. If the camp is more than $1000.00 be able to raise funds to cover the balance due.
7. Qualify for the terms and conditions of attending the camp you wish to attend. Provide your own transportation to and from camp.
8. The deadline to turn in your essay is April 19, 2006 with all required information to be returned to your current Third, Fourth or Fifth Grade teacher.
9. If the winner is unable to meet the above qualifications than the runner up will be awarded the scholarship.
10. That you have a great time and adventure while you learn!
11. The winner will be announced on May 01, 2006.
12. Any questions please call Donna Prenta 805-583-1294.

Donna,
On that 20% number I would call Bill Waxman to verify it is correct, he is the secondary director for SVUSD. I'm not saying it isn't correct, but I have seen many times where that information is not correct.

Jerre,

What percentage of students from your children's private school were eligible for a CSU/UC.

Arleigh,

What can we do as a school district to up our % of UC/CSU qualified students.

I still think it begains at home and making education important.

Our scholarship program will hopefully inspire students at a pivotal age to become interested in math and science. We are also trying to initiate parents and students to discuss exciting opportunities in the math/science fields.

I sure hope we have a lot of students apply. We have additional donors interested in sponsoring other students as well.

Donna:

How much are the sponsorships?

Scott

Donna,
I would check on the % first with the SVUSD. I remember how for awhile the District was not asking parents their education level for the API (I believe some parents had complained), because of that our data was wrong. It would show our API as not matching up to similiar schools because that piece of data was missing. In terms of getting more kids ready for UC/CSU schools you first need to motivate kids to want to go on that path. I think we need to really look at the High Schools of today and do some revamping. I don't think we are doing enough for the kids who are not headed to college. I think every kid should be ready for college, or a job. Other countries do internships for high school kids during the school day to get them ready for the workforce. I think the State needs to fully fund our school system and then I think we need to create new opportunities and also strengthen existing programs.

Arleigh,

I got the statistics from the Star Focus on Education that came out Tuesday from the Ventura County of Educaiton. I do not know how to link it, sorry.

As you know stats can be presented from many different perspectives so I understand your caution at accepting them for face value without understandig their collection gathering.

My question is if Fillmore has 41% of "graudating" students eligible and SV has 20% eligible of graduating than how many of their actual students in the class graduated in the first place, this certianly would skew the results. ie. if only 50% of fillmore students graduated and then 40% of them were eligible as opposed to 80% of SV graduating with 20% of them eligible, makes you wonder?

Regradless of the spin on the numbers we need to have more students eligible and prepared to explore all possible options.

Arleigh I also agree that internships and preparing students for vocations is equally important. I would like to work with the Chamber on how we could better work with our local businesses.

Scott,

If you want to make a contribution there is no set amount. If you like you can even help me to read the applications to judge, I could use some help. The camps usually start from $500-$1500 so depending on how many people donate and what camp students choose will determine how many students are sponsored, I think it is safe to say we will raise approx. $3000. It is not much but if we send three kids to camp and all three become scieince or math professionals it is a success!

Microsoft offers a sabbatical to their mathematicians and scientists to teach local schools to enhance the sciences and hopefully help raise the level of skilled area in their area. I would like to see the larger techonology companies in our area do the same, Boeing, Rockwell, Baxter, Amgen, Shell/Solar, Dole, Zebra, P& G etc. Any takers out there?

My husband works for Harman/JBL and is the Director of Engineering, he taught 5th grade science for a year. His employer adopted the entire school and sends employees regularly to tutor teach, update technology, do fundraisers etc.

His employer also sponsored a student attendance contest at Santa Susana HS last year in SV and donated two Home Theater systems for prizes to students as well as providing sound sytems for their dance studio and recording studio.

The entire community needs to own the success of our students, let's start to look at the man in the mirror.

The original blog was about private school kids that went to an extremely exclusive, liberal, academicly competitive school (sounds like Harvard, NYU to me, albeit great schools). Regardless of their sexual exploits, which I do not condone, they will most likely be the employers of our students from other schools that are underperforming, shudder the thought. These kids are smart, bored, want to test the extreme limits, with parents that think the world revolves around them, I know the type my son went to private boarding school. They have trust funds and guarantees that no matter how bad they screw up someone will bail them out, these are most likely students from parents with the morals of Enron Executives, it all fits.

Scott: I keep reading stories of kids with high gpa’s who cannot pass the exit exam. If these students have completed all of the requirements to graduate, with the exception of this exam, the kids should graduate. Teachers are forced to teach to the exam, rather than pursuing an idea that spontaneously arises during a class discussion. What happened to letting the local parents decide what’s important and what they want their kids to learn. And when will kids have time for art and music. These are not part of the standards. And kids will start dropping out when they realize that they are not going to graduate because of the test.

Besides, as Arleigh would point out, private school kids don’t have to pass an exit exam to graduate.

Arleigh: you’ve stated twice that the Fordham study I cited was proved false, but up offer nothing to substantiate that. Who “proved” it to be false – the CTA or the AFT? I hope that the study has caused some of the bloggers to be concerned about the findings.

Donna has presented some interesting information – a poll shows that parents are not concerned with the state of the math and science education for our students. I have certainly found that to be true by the actions of some parents. How often have you heard a parent say “I never had to use Algebra after I left school, so why do my kids need to take it?” Further, If a kid gets a poor grade in one of these subjects, the parent blames the teacher. And they usually do it in the presence of the student. This is why you will never be able to enhance the standards for these subjects.

Scott: Incentives are a great idea, but the teachers’ union will never allow it. The union philosophy is that all teachers who have taught for (fill in the number of years) are equally qualified and therefore should earn the same pay. No matter what you call the extra money, the union will not go for it. The only real progressive city is Denver, where they recently instituted an incentive plan for all teachers. This plan was developed in collaboration with the teachers and has their buy-in but it took millions of dollars and years to negotiate. We could do the same thing in two years by piggy-backing on the Denver findings.

Back to Arleigh: The percentage of students from my kids’ schools who were eligible for the UC system was 100%. Why? Because the graduation requirements are set equal to the UC entrance requirements. So parents, if you expect for your kids to go to big-time 4-year universities, you can send you kids to the local public school and hope that they get all the classes they need, or you can send them to a college-prep school and be assured. Moorpark is not a big-time school. It is a community college meant for those that are interested in college but who did not meet the higher entrance requirements. Entrance requirements are “18 and breathing.”

Donna, public school districts can do the same, i.e. set the graduation requirements equal to the UC/CSU entrance requirements, but parents will complain that school is to hard and that their kids are taking subjects that they will never use after high school.

One more nice thing about the parochial high schools – the kids get a daily dose of ethics and morality. It may not sound like a big deal, but it is. It becomes part of their everyday learning.

Hi Jerre:

You just proved my point. In high school, students can avoid tougher more rigorous classes in high school or they can take those courses such as GATE english.

Let's say a student decides they just want to do the minimum and take ceramics, PE, and less challenging courses. This student has a 3.8, but that's because this student got A's in ceramics, senior math, and PE not because of core courses or displaying core competency.

If a kid want to be mechanics that's fine, but why not improve standards to give mechanics the educaitonal capability to run their own mechanics business.

Let students dumb down after high school.

The High School Exit exam is designed to challenge each student to have core competency in subjects needed to succeed in the workforce. Here's a portion you should read from the above article I posted...

"According to the evaluation, in 1999 only about 20 percent of schools surveyed in the report covered at least three-quarters of the standards, whereas in the current school year more than 80 percent of the schools reported such in-depth coverage. The report found that schools with high levels of standards coverage had much higher passage rates on the exit exam than schools that had not implemented the standards as intensely. For example, on the English portion, 100 percent of the schools in the survey which had high levels of standards coverage had passage rates of 75 percent or greater. In contrast, only 59 percent of schools that had lower standards coverage had passing rates of 75 percent or greater."

We are talking about preparing students for the future. We are seeing higher standards based coverage rates and more students with improving core competencies in English and Math as a result of the high school exit exam. What's wrong with that?

Do you have an alternative approach to achieve higher core competencies?

So far, I haven't heard your approach for improving core competencies. Where is it? How effective is it?

Also, you don't want schools to force feed english and math competency, but you do want schools to force feed Music and Art? Can you explain that inconsistency? Does choice stop at the art class door for you?

Scott

Jerre,
No offense, but it is useless to try and explain anything to you, or prove anything to you as your mind is made up and closed. You should try and be more like Scott and have two way discussions and be open to new ideas and accept facts as facts. Your understanding of "Unions" is completely wrong, as is your understanding of the public school system.

Arleigh: If all you are going to say about the study is that it is a fraud, but provide no evidence, then I doubt that people will listen to you.

For those that are interested, here is the link to the story I cited. You decide the validity of the findings. Go to http://www.edexcellence.net./foundation/publication/publication.cfm?id=333.

Arliegh, you are the one with a closed mind. It's the way you have to be as a union leader. You have to take the union position. On the other hand, I can fully examine the facts and take a position on either side.