IN THE ANNALS OF Ventura history, there is likely nothing odder than the back-story of Cemetery Park on Main Street Downtown. Established in 1862, the cemetery once sat on the very edge of town before the city sprawled eastward. The site is the final resting place of more than 2,000 people.
You'd never know that by looking at it today. It now functions as a public park with only occasional small, flat markers indicating it was ever a proper cemetery. It's become a gathering space for families and lots of Frisbee-tossing dog owners. I often drive visitors by the spot and point out that while the headstones are gone, the bodies still remain in the ground, a tidbit which nearly always elicits a look of disbelief.
How the resting place of some of Ventura's founding fathers and mothers got to this stage probably ranks as one of the city's more controversial decisions. The church-owned cemetery, filled to capacity in the 1940s, began falling into disrepair over the years, much to the dismay of nearby property owners. A large hedge, planted to cover up the spectacle, did little to appease neighbors.
Years of vandalism took its toll until 1963 when the city, by now the owner of the property, decided -- with only a bit of public outcry -- to convert it to a public park. Bodies resting in mausoleums were moved underground, relatives who could be located were give the option of moving their deceased ancestors and/or collecting the headstones. Flat markers were placed at the request of some family members.
The monuments were unceremoniously moved to a city storage yard and arranged in alphabetical order for relatives to collect. But over the years it became a popular high school prank to steal the headstones and cart them off as grim trophies. Now, many years later, they still pop up from time to time in odd places.
Finally, the unclaimed stones were ground up and used to fill a levee near the Olivas Park Golf Course.
GIVEN THIS CHECKERED history, it is no wonder local residents have clamored for a respectable ending to this resting place for people who have Ventura streets named after them. Finally a plan has emerged that may appeal to everyone, but paying for it in these tight financial times is the difficult part. The city is hoping for help in the form of grants and private donations, Mayor Christy Weir said.
"Since most grant funding will only pay construction costs -- and not design fees -- the city has taken the initial steps necessary to become eligible for available funding by designing a plan for improvements to the park," she said.
But neighbors, who now enjoy the open, restful spot, have complained about the addition of perhaps 2,000 flat brass markers to the site and wonder how recreation and memorials can co-exist. Others in the community say it never should have been made into a public park in the first place and should be fenced off and restored as a cemetery. A map to the gravesites with names still exists.
The new plan also includes refurbished landscaping and repairs to the historic WPA cobblestone retaining wall, a veterans' memorial path and flagpole, original headstones inset into a memorial wall and a memorial garden, which will make it a more pleasant public space.
"The plan is to gather whatever headstones still exist to use them in the memorial wall," Weir said. "We're trying to restore the history and dignity that was lost when the park conversion took place."
The city is hoping to get more public input on the plan on Wednesday, Nov. 19 at 5:30 p.m. at Community Presbyterian Church, 1555 Poli St. The proposed plans are posted at the park, and are also online at the city's Web site.
If the City can put together grants and private donations to fund this $4 million project, godspeed. But, in these tough economic times, that's likely to be very difficult. Not one penny of City General Fund money should be spent on this project, however. It just doesn't make any sense at all to spend any general tax revenues on a project that seems trivial in comparison to other basic City needs that are currently underfunded (police, fire, streets, etc.).
I know the City has already spent $25,000 to develop a design plan for the conversion of this park to a pseudo-cemetary. Was this a wise expenditure of General Fund dollars? I'd say this ranks right up there with the $110,000 that was authorized by the City Council recently for the consultant to develop building heights limit guidelines. Like there's a lot of building going on right now anyway (not a priority, folks).
The one part of this project that I firmly object to, however, is the idea of sticking 3,000 poles in the ground to memorialize people that have long ago passed away. This site has been a public park for many years now and the grassy area is being used by residents for recreating, picnicking, and dog-walking. It should not be taken away for a boondoggle like this. That just seems ridiculous to me.
Why not erect a memorial wall with the names of the dead on it? It would be far less expensive and would use only a fraction of the space.
It falls under the category of you have to spend a little money to make money. You can't qualify for grants unless you have a plan to show people. We have done the very same thing for the Serra Cross Conservancy. We have worked with several landscape design firms to draw up a plan and we are now fundraising.
I am sure the Cemetery Park Plan will undergo changes as it goes through the public comment phase. It also needs to be approved by the Parks Commission.
The city may not be able to raise the money. Or they may just raise enough to build part of it and it may be the memorial wall phase. I support the effort to right this past wrong. If they can find willing donors and grants for it, great.
As far as the view resources task force goes, please bear in mind that this was a "up to $110,000" request and the board will likely not use that amount. I think the use of specialized consultant time to guide the board is wise. They will be making decisions which will affect development projects citywide.
I favor giving property owners notice sooner about what they can do with their properties rather than waiting for the long, drawn-out VCORD process to unfold. The uncertainty could easily affect the possible sales of properties. I also think it will be essential as the city moves forward with its community plans.
Well, Marie, you and I clearly disagree on the $110,000 expenditure. You know that I oppose the VCORD effort as well. For me, it comes down to property rights and not being overly-restrictive on how people can use their property in the future. That said, I believe whatever comes out of the City process will be far better than the guidelines VCORD is likely to come up with. I just don't believe it's a priority right now.
Nor is the Cemetary Park project. The City Council should stop trying to be the arbiters of social justice. We can't expect the City to correct all the wrongs of prior generations, especially when it comes to spending General Fund $$, even if only to provide seed money for a larger scale project. This is $25,000 that could have been used to pave a street or mend a few potholes, a much more prudent expenditure of public funds, IMHO.
I looked it up. The funding for the design came from the Capital Improvement Project General Fund 04, which includes restricted grant monies intended for specific purposes. The expenditure was approved in May of 2007 at which time there were sufficient monies to cover the design phase.
The park has infrastructure problems due to earth movement which need to be remedied as well.
Since you're such a short timer in our community (you've lived here maybe 2 years??) I don't think you have much of a grasp of the historical or emotional significance.
As to views, we can figure it out now with expert help, or we can figure it out later if the VCORD initiative passes. That would come with no experts and a group hand picked by a special interest group. Then of course there is always the possibility of litigation over the VCORD initiative which our City Attorney has analyzed and says has several legal flaws. If it passes, any lawsuits would need to be defended by the city and our tax dollars.
You are incredibly short sighted.
A litle investment in our communal karma by righting this huge wrong might lead to more $ in the general fund for future projects. While I agree that police and fire spending should come first over the cost of restoring/improving the park cum cemetery, it is an important part of history and only right that the dead be properly respected.
After sitting on DRC five years, I believe the view committee matter could have been handled without a cent spent with Torti Gallas, a firm close to the hearts of our Planning Dept. Expensive three-dimensional models of the city have already been bought and paid for when Form-Based Code was being promoted. Like the Saticoy Wells project, this could have been offerred to the architectural students at Cal Poly as a project - for free. VCORD's real issue (in my opinion) and, in fact, the primary issue, is not so much ( again, in my opinion ) what the various city views are but rather how proposed two, three and higher level buildings impinge on the existing views of existing adjacent buildings, like the many cottages in Mid-City. This was a conclusion I reached after several conversations with Camille Harris as to what VCORD'S goals were( though she may not interpret it this way ) specifically regarding proposed projects on Thompson. The issues as I see them relate to the contextual makeup of the city and could be handled individually by DRC for free in conjunction with Planning and Cal Poly. In the recent past the Sonderman-Ring project in the Harbor - 300 rental units on city land - almost received similar "consultant" treatment. Planning Dept. and local architects ( and the City Manager) wanted to take the project away from the developer's own architect, retain a consulting architectural firm to oversee it for the city ( sound familiar ) and redesign it from scratch ( using local architects, of course) . I suggested in open session of the City Council that the DRC could review future revisions of the existing architect as they materialized ( for free ), which is what finally occurred, and voila, a project was finally approved a year or so later. It is now featured on the same City Manager's blog site. No money was spent by the city for consultants. Incidentally, the tape of that meeting was reviewed by several to determine whether I was representing anyone's interest. I was not.
As to Cemetery Park - It must be understood first that this is, legally and in perpetuity, a cemetery - not a park.
The gravestones removed by the city ( with very short 30-day notice by publication ) were bought and paid for, in perpetuity, by various individuals and families ( essentially they were private property ), the stones tossed by the city ( the parks department has a long history of designing their parks to maximize the ease of operating a large lawnmower ). Catholic, protestant and Jewish sections were included, as well as veterans'.
The proper and ethical goal should be to return the locatable stones to their original locations ( there are exact location maps available ), obtain free new stones already offerred by the VA for this project ( the VA may also have additional funds available for part of the construction ) and generate a finished project, with donated work, which will make the citizens of this city proud that they, like cities all around America, are honoring their past. The homeowners surrounding this cemetery know down deep this is a cemetery. I believe the design allottment I read for this matter was $70,000.00.
I believe a park "on top of" the cemetery is actually a good way to honor those buried there. Everyone can enjoy a safe, green area and a wall or plaque somewhere to commemorate those buried there will let genealogists or history buffs know who's who. I see no reason to revert it to a cemetery that will be used by a very few people, while forcing those who now enjoy the park off the land that's been theirs for nearly 50 years.
In regards to Mr. Stewart's comment's above, there are no existing models of the entire city. The View Task Force would cost the City money in any regard. Internal staff time also is an expense and the City often needs to balance between adding staff, dropping or delaying other projects or using outside services. The feeling by the community is not to delay other community plans so this is the least expensive. Permanent staff have additional costs. Also, this will greatly help the coding and zoning process that can be incorporated into the Community Plans as they are developed.
On the cemetery: There are many other communities around the world that have converted old cemeteries into Memorial parks.
If the city can find grant funding for this project, they should go forward with it. I have always wanted to see a memorial wall there at the very least. Ventura is an old city with a rich past and we should honor it.
One must assume "another view" is a member of the Planning staff, city council or Rick Cole. The lingo is stafftalk; it deflects from the subject to a tangential discussion about adequate staffing and/or holding up some other project. In a dismissive, somewhat bureaucratic tone, this person presumes to know the "feeling of the community" on this ( most members of the "community" do not immerse themselves in this sort of thing ). I submit it might really suggest the " feeling of the planning staff".
The comment re. Cemetery Park suggests there are similar situations in other cities. The other cemeteries referenced typically had to relocate all remains to another site. For those who feel a certain entitlement to this being a park, there are well over 50 other legitimate city parks within Ventura's city limits.
Well...the way this topic goes...it's more like a minefield than a park or cemetery.
The neglectful management and poor decisions of the past can't really be undone. Memorial markers ground to dust can't be reconstitued.
Many of Mr. Stewarts points go a bit beyond my knowledge but I think he makes fair points, at least in terms of procedures.
Here's the thing. Those people are dead. They are not there anymore, just the husk that carried who they were are.
Still, respect for them and respect for the history of the area would, for me, lead me to think some measure of acknowledgement of the "cemetery" nature of this plot of land is in order.
It probably shouldn't be a dog park, or a place to throw frisbes, but it could still be a memorial to the early citizens of Ventura, and still be a peaceful place for people to visit and unwind.
Recreation does not always have to be soccer, baseball, or dogs catching flying discs....sometime a quiet contemplative place is a good thing.
As a kid growing up back east, I remember a school trip to a cemetery near Tarrytown, NY that was 250+ years old or older....it was a bit spooky (for a ten year old) but it was a public place like nothing I'd been to before or really since.
Why not peaceful gardens, landscaping, due respect to the past and those who made our past, and a place where...gosh, where we could just be still in a quiet hush?
I don't think we have anywhere near enough of that around here.
Tom:
I could not agree with you more.
We have too much commotion, motion and locomotion in our rapid-pace modern world. As a society, we have lost the contemplative spirit, and are far worse for it.
Perhaps, the wisdom of Isaiah 32:17 should guide the planning of this memorial:
"..And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.."
For the sake of those Venturans who have left us and rest peacefully under the ground, and those Venturans today who wish to remember and memorialize them, and no less for those Venturans of the future, who are yet to come, let us choose wisely, not capriciously.
Pacem, et lux perpetua!
NostraDemus
Mr. Steve Schleder's web site on this matter ( restorestmarys.org) is a reflection of the time and effort he has expended explaining the history of Cemetery Park ( formerly known in part as St. Mary's Cemetery ). Even the City Parks Dept. is a bit ambivalent about this park's true identity: of the 50+ city parks listed in its brochure, this is the only one which has a name but has no sign with that name on it at the site. Mr. Schleder also has upraided the L.A. Archdiocese about its plans for the many graves of early inhabitants of Ventura in and around the San Buenaventura Mission.
Transformation of cemeteries into "open space reservations" like Cemetery Park was an extreme reaction in the 1960s to urban land consumption. From this news story, it seems public sentiment about the site has changed over the last several decades. Since the Bicentennial, burial grounds have been viewed as amenities. Appropriate signage at Cemetery Park would raise the public's awareness and, perhaps, sensitivity to its role as a burial ground. This could be an econmical first step to a phasing-in of proposed renovations. Consideration of alternative passive uses (such as gardening, tours, strolling, picnicking, dog walking, sketching, watercoloring, etc.) would not only enhance the visitor experience, but help mitigate operating costs and people the park. Attempts to restore the surviving grave markers to their proper places seems appropriate and could reduce the need to introduce new features or focal points (such as a memorial wall), which would continue deviation from the site's original appearance. Upright monuments could actually enhance and frame the ocean view. Cemetery Park has not ceased being a burial ground, nor will it unless the bodies are disinterred. The reconstruction or recreation of the site's original appearance while accomodating public use happens elsewhere already...with economic benefits.
Cemetery Park's restoration could begin with a restoration team made up of voluntary groups from local churches, museums, schools, historical and cultural groups. Its restoration might help regain a sense of our own place in time and history. Work could begin on retrieving the old stones and cleaning them up one by one. The project could snowball. In Richmond, VA there is a park-like setting known as Hollywood Cemetery where families take picnic lunches while visiting graves. In the middle of Harvard Square rises a block full of stone markers in a cemetery going back to the 1600's. It fits into the neighborhood. In Kennebunk, Maine and Hanover, N.H. the combination of grave stones in very old cemeteries have a certain majestic quality.
Retrieval of the original grave markers looks most problematic and would require experienced riggers and large equipment (possibly cranes and certainly flat bed trucks); however, properly trained volunteers can safely and appropriately clean historic stone work. If a charitable organization (501 C-3) is established, tax letters can be offered to companies in lieu of payment.
Additional thought needs to be put into the memorial wall concept. After reviewing the master plan, I wasn't convinced the creation of a new memorial was necessary when thousands of original memorials already exist (in various states of preservation). However, I was pleased to see the desire to retrieve and display them.
I think it is important to recognize that getting the grave markers and monuments back on site does not put them in context. They will still be disassociated from the bodily remains they were intended to commemorate.
No matter what the final outcome, care should be taken to protect the historic stone work from further damage upon reinstallation. Proper mortars, pins, epoxies, and other materials should be specified. In no case should grave markers be permanently altered, especially by being encased in cement. I am also concerned about poured concrete walls hiding from view carved surfaces of three dimensional markers. Information could be permanently hidden if this point is not addressed before construction begins.
I think the cemetery should be left as is, but simply create a small memorial area with names of the dead, pictures of how it looked as a cemetery, and a map of the body locations.
As for VCORD, they seem to be some of the few people trying to preserve Ventura's charm. If it were up to Marie, the east end would be developed into a generic commercial mess like Victoria and Telephone. The City Council is a bunch of good-ole-boys who are in developer's pockets. I think they will be surprised when they all get voted out! The public rallying cry against them should be the terrible phone tax scam, and now the 100 foot auto sign monstrosity. The Council must have received a dinner at the auto mall or discount on a lease/purchase??
If the Ventura City Council were around in biblical times, Moses would never have parted the Red Sea. He would not have been able to find or see it, but instead, he could have found a dealership to sell him a camel!
I have people alternately accusing me of being NO-growth and PRO-growth, so I must be someplace in the middle. I think the Council is, too.
If I say I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart and like careful, planned development that fits in with our General Plan, I'm anti-growth. If I say I would prefer the new View Committee handle our city's view ordinance, I'm pro-growth. View protection is also written into the General Plan.
I am looking forward to the Saticoy-Wells Plan, and any new opportunities it would bringing our way, as well as additions to our mall.
Thanks for posting.
Right on, Rob! They are developer New Urpanist ideologues (except Monahan, possibly Andrews) Last night the council all voted to defer developer fees and extend building permits asking nothing in return for the public except years more of weeded lots. They could have asked for Community Gardens, while we're waiting for their Disneylands to emerge,as other cities do.
They are pushing approvals through as fast as they can, because they know the VCORD View Protection Initiative is on the ballot in Nov. 09 and neighborhoods can take control of their own environments. Obviously the city deems the public incapable of choosing for themselves what they want next to them.
They also voted to change an industrial zone on the North Avenue,(jobs anyone?) to a zone allowing another densely packed housing project for more commuters in the Cole annointed name of New Urpanism. It will feature the token vacant frontage to comply with the "Mixed Use" (Whether you need it or not) ideology. The General Plan warned about the danger of sacrificing real economic growth for more communter housing. Ghost town controlled by the government, anyone?
State law requires cemeteries to be fenced. Not an opinion..a law.
Can't have it both ways, folks. No growth = no new jobs and no increased tax revenue. One complains about East End commercial growth and the other complains about no commercial growth on the Avenue. Which is it?
Excuse me, but how did discussions of "Cemetery Park" merge into more of the VCORD agenda?
I thought the topic was the "park". I'm not sure anything discussed by anyone about this plot of land impinges on anyones "viewscape" whatever that
I think that due respect can be paid to those interred at St. Mary's, and a form of public open space can be made available. That seems to me more the agenda here.
The comment by "sespeangel" that a fence structure should be incorporated surrounding Cemetery Park/St. Mary's Cemetery is relevant.
Can anyone direct me to that law on-line? I'm curious if there is a broader definition for boundary markings than just fences.
I am a native born Venturan 75 years now and I love this city very much. The old parts of the city are valuable to alot of folks. These things have history to them and if we don't preserve them, it will be lost forever. We all have been fortunate to live here, and I hate seeing some of the changes. Does anyone remember Sears by the Sea? That cemetary was and always shall be just that. A memorial wall soumds good to me but the rest should be preserved.
I agree Joanie!
Anyone interested in seeing some of the wonderful buildings which used to exist here but are now torn down, should check out Glenda Jackson's books on Ventura. I know Bank of Books sells them. The Rose Hotel is the building which really struck me as a beautiful structure which was torn down less than 50 years after it was built.
Thanks for posting.
I commented at the Cemetery Park meeting last night that I thought the overall design was a collection of elements rather than a cohesive natural approach ( even the architect showed a slide of a Swedish memorial which they liked and which I like that depicts such a concept - why didn't they incorporate it ? ). There is a certain schizophrenic aspect to the design - an apparent attempt at "diversity" - something for everyone -as evidenced by a response to my remarks by Parks Manager Mike Montoya, defending the design as a symbol of diversity. In carefully walking us through the design, Landscape Architect Katherine Spitz covered the whole site, but somehow failed to mention the grid pattern of 15" diameter engraved frizbee-like circular metal plates ( in lieu of tombstones ) which are proposed to cover this entire football-size field ( bronze for Jews/silver for Gentiles ) like rows of exposed landmines - smooth enough and low enough to avoid the blades of Mike Montoya's 12' wide mechanical lawnmower.
The Vietnam Memorial works because it stands for something. This design does not work precisely because it is a smorgasbord.
I agree, John. Ventura can't continue to take the safe and boring middle ground regarding its cultural assets. Lawn = Yawn. Ventura is a fringe community and needs to get its full attitude on. We can go to Arlington Nat'l if we want to see a bunch of symmetrical row markers.
A grandly built-up cemetery which tells robust and intriguing stories like the beloved Pere Lachaise in Paris would be perfect. The necessary stone carvers and restoration experts are already here. Give THEM the $4 million. Tourists will come to see it, I guarantee it.
Somehow decision makers must find the will to be unique and daring. We must tap the true zeitgeist of this community or risk being just another soul-less "no place."
Lets not fix something that works!
1) This park is one of the most utilized I have seen, by children, sunbathers, and dog owners. And they all intermix and exchange ideas and neighborhood culture.
2) It is now an example of what city planners try to accomplish, but seldom do.
3) The city does not have the money for the plan as presented, & will not in the forseeable future.
4) Comprimise: Put up a simple marker commemerating those buried there and at the most list all names. Also put up tastefull singnage or a marker reminding users that there are people buried there, including war heroes and founding fathers, and respect should be shown.
My ancestors are not burried there, but I know they would rather be in a place of laughter and fun, than in a cemetary.
Care should be taken to capture the spirit of the place. It is fortunate that so many vintage images exist of St. Mary's before it was redeveloped. They provide a tremendous amount of information about the cultural landscape. The criticism of the flush grave markers seems warranted. They are indicative of a memorial park, a different style of burial ground than St. Mary's was. I work in a cemetery where 70,000 people are buried and only 30,000 are marked. There is no thought of marking these burials for two reasons: 1) introduction of modern elements into an historic setting, and 2) cost. We handle this situation by educating visitors about the presence of graves where none seem to exist. Signage, printed materials, a web presence, and tour guides get the information out.
If you'd like to see a successful example of a cemetery full of laughter and fun, check out Oakland Cemetery in Atlanta. You'll find tourists, children, picnickers, dog walkers, joggers, artists, gardeners, photographers, researchers, musicians, students, bicyclists, and many others sharing the grounds on a daily basis and having a darn good (and respectful) time among the dead. Cemeteries were built for the living! www.oaklandcemetery.com
I'd love to see something done there to remind people of our past and the founders of our city who are buried there. I tend to think the city will only have enough money for a large memorial wall.
The thought of children and dogs romping over me after I'm gone sounds rather appealing. But I know that idea doesn't sit well with everyone. My aunt's second husband requested his ashes be put in the compost bin and mixed in with the garden. That was a bit much for me....
I know a couple in which the husband sails and the wife hates being in a boat. He wants his ashes thrown into the sea when he passes. She jokingly says that after her husband is cremated she will flush the ashes and he will end up in the same place.
Seriously though, I think cemetaries are places of education, memory and reflection. I was struck and moved many years ago by reading a headstone in the cemetary at Cashel, Ireland which read:
"Remember man as you walk by
As you are now, so once was I.
As I am now, so will you be
Remember man, eternity."
Cemetaries teach us a lot about life.
A thought just struck me, with todays technology it would be great to have a way to tie in a persons life so that one could look up history. This is problematic if one doesnt do a biography but something like this could be done for those that have an impact on history.
Kind of makes me wish I could see the life history by touching an item of the person that passed away.
After all people can live thru amazing times, have amazing experiences. It just seems a loss to know that most of that is lost in time.
Maybe I am just too curious, then again I love the history channel and history and documentaries.
Leslie...
You hit the nail right on the head. I won't deny that the sentiments of that memorial stone are heavy, but there is wisdom there.
I think restoring St Mary's to the extent that is practical is reasonable.
Bringing the public to appreciate it as a quiet place to contemplate life might be harder, but I think would bring a balance to public places in Ventura.
Not every public place has to be about dogs, soccer, or baseball....
I believe in "cross-pollinating" organizations. Has anyone considered joining the forces behind the redevelopment of Cemetery Memorial Park and the proposed botanical garden at Grant Park? It seems to be an economical solution for both groups. Cemeteries have served as symbols for the Garden of Heaven for centuries. Imagine a dog- and children-friendly property peopled by visitors strolling among finely carved monuments nestled in beds of flowers. It sounds like a chamber of commerce dream to me.
The Star reports The Parks Comm'n in today's issue ( Saturday ) voted in favor of the proposed Cemetery Park project. That's a good first step. Now it would seem to require some extensive fine tuning of the design .
Boy, there sure are a lot of opinions about this place. Open space should never be compromised. Ventura is full everywhere you look. Put up a plaque that commemorates the dead and mow the grass once in a while. I remember as a child in the 50's, my brothers and I would go to the Ventura Theater for week-end matinees. Frankenstein, the Wolfman,Dracula and other creepy stuff, We had to walk past the old Cemetary and every time, we would walk past a crypt with the back open it would make us run as fast as we could . Couldn't sleep for hours thinking about the ghosts. Well, no one ever rose up from their grave to come get us, but I bet they would if they knew what was going on with their remains. Keep the park. Keep the faith
What a great post, Alan! There was a creepy cemetery where I grew up, too, with mausoleums that used to scare me when I was a kid.
The newer cemeteries with their flat markers just don't instill hobgoblins in the minds of children like the old-style ones did!
Thank you for posting!
I recognize the cultural contributions of characters such as Frankenstein's monster, the Wolfman, and Dracula. However, that imagery should not negate the fact that burial grounds can be multi-functional spaces, and thereby, offer value beyond their practical use for the disposal of human remains. Cemeteries ornamented by architecture may not be open space, but they are green spaces that can offer communities environmental, cultural, historical, and financial benefits. In a city like Ventura that is struggling with density and appropriate development, thoughtful programming of Cemetery Memorial Park would accomodate descendants, alongside dog walkers, joggers, photographers, picnickers, gardeners, and many others.
It is a shame about the exposed grave. Demolition was an extreme solution, but it seems Ventura's citizens now have a rare opportunity to create a unique model for both the living and the dead. The redevelopment of the site has the potential of being the envy of many other communities, but only if it does not alienate stake holders.
Another great day & reason to be gratefull for the park! As usual I took my dog Windy to the park this morning.
Here we met Buddy,Molly, and their owner who expressed thanks that she could take her dogs here to excerise them. This made them good neighbors as they barked much more if they did not get the regular excerise, much to their neighbors dis-pleasure.
We also met Scott & his dog. Scott just returned from fighting the fires as a seasonal fireman & told of his experience. He had to leave his dog with friends & now is gratefull to take his dog to the park and get re-aquainted with him.
Their were also abouit 5 other dogs with owners there, all using the park to excerise & talk with neighbors & new friends.
This park works great as it is!!!!!
The passionate discussion attached to Ventura County Star's story "Ventura Commission Backs Plan for Cemetery Park Update" supports the case that Cemetery Memorial Park is not working "great as it is." Why does a cooperative sharing of the site seem an impossibilty to the community?
Suggest reading piece on 11/22/08 in the Star on Cemetery Park by Kevin Clerici and the 7-part response recitation of a brief sent to the City Council ( submitted 12/02/08 )
Thank you. Do you know where I can review California's requirements for fencing/enclosing cemeteries? I have not been able to locate that information on the web.
I believe you will find it within the body of the aforementioned brief.
Great. I'll take a look. Thank you.
The park works great as it is for me...and it also seems to work for the dozens of other antual users I meet there most everty day.
I havent heard any of the actual users wanting to change the park, only those at the meeting that I have never seen actually there.
What is a park for, people that use it, people that talk about it, or people that "might" use it, if it gets "improved"?
that cemetary should have never been disturb. how disrespectful it is to the deceased that was buried their, not to mention their familys.you do know when you disturb a cemetary unexplainable things happen there.rightfully so, because if you disturb my final resting place i would come back and haunt the heck out of it just so that nothing would come of that property.
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My sweatpants to me this cold morning, "I haven't seen you in months and now you think you can just get inside me?"
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Tom delay wishes he was on the movement.
I am little curious to know more about it.........
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Have you tried freecorder before for downloading youtube? If so - got any feedback? Would love to hear your review.
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Say that yet again?
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Yale is previous logo flat out sucked. My cat could have done that.
The new Zune browser is surpr isingly good, but not as beneficial as the iPod is. It performs nicely, but is notas quickly as Safari, and includes a clunkier interface. For those who occasionally program on working with the internet browser that is not an challenge, but if you??? re planning to browse the web alot out of your PMP then the iPod is bigger screen and greater browser may well be crucial.
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I wonder how did new msn logo get to the worst l ist?
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some surpr ises but a nice summary in the 12 months that was.
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How d isappointing! With just a few exceptions I sense really let down by what you call the most beneficial and worst of 2009. Together with the exception of Melbourne is logo practically every one of the remaining I'd be ashamed to put in my portfolio had I designed them. There once again I did notso I can breathe a sigh of relief.
Tons of comments, but yes. AOL as selection 1? My fonts was possibly the perfect one.
Do you care if I place part of th is on my website if I submit a hyperlink to th is webpage?
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Randy Hill >> Computer systems
200,000,000,000? Are there that lots of persons on earth?
These types of ratings are overrated anyway.
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Every once in a very although I discover a little something worth studying when I am surfing the internet. Bravo?- thanks for creating real content here?-
I've to say that I, personally, adore the way the Commerzbank model turned out. To get two brands and mold them into one particular is constantly tough, but th is remedy looks so quick. That is certainly kinda the point though is notit? :O)
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I??? ll carry on to v isit BrandNew though I totally d isagree using a lot of your decisions right here, particularly AOL. at #1 Greatest. Weird.
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is so applicable its almost painful.
What a great way to d iscuss
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When I take a look at your RSS feed it puts up a bunch of unformatted html, would be the issue on my end?
At initially glance, I thought it was really cool. On second glance, it is REALLY cool. Burnley +1, cognoscenti fail!
Wow that was really interesting, altought i would add few more deeper thoughts
When you do notthoughts my asking, do you make excellent revenue from th is blog?
It may sound weird but my browser does notseem to become ready to d isplay your write-up rightly?- It looks like an entire chunk of if is not effectively d isplayed as well as layout of the page does notappear to be appropriate. Can you affirm that th is publish continues to be set up for Opera?
Do notforget Union Financial institution as a person from the worst redesigns.