The wheels of justice turn slowly, but the State Attorney General did a thorough job of investigation hand in hand with the Ventura County Sheriff's Department. So much for the Mongos and Bubbas who said repeatedly that this crime would go nowhere or as Audra Strickland said "no crime was committed by "Joel" Angeles, just perhaps bad judgment". Now a judge or jury will hear the evidence and reach a verdict. Based on everything I've seen, Mr. Angeles will be convicted, go to jail and pay a lot of money in fines and restitution. This was a bad day for Ventura County politics, but indicative of the kind of politics that has been a part of the Strickland machine for many years.

It is about time that the State Attorney General did what the District Attorney was afraid to do after stalling the investigation for two months. I doubt that the Stricklands will be able to pay off a Judge. This stage of the process is going to be a lot different from the wheeling and dealing they do with developers, tobacco, big oil, insurance and chemicals. As was said for many months, Jose Angeles is going to be held accountable for what he did that day last Summer.

Good job in putting this story on your blog Marie.

Audra only suspended him for a month during a legislative break as punishment. Then he was spotted out on street corners campaigning for Tony. Of course the boss and her husband knew what he was doing out there. Its hard to punish somebody for following orders.

At last, if this had happened over the summer we wouldn't have Audra and Phony Tony in the state legislature obstructing any progress on the budget and serving their corporate masters who are not from their districts. I saw the event and have given a statement to investigators. I hope I get the opportunity to testify against this Jack Booted Thug.

Justice that is thwarted by political interests can be difficult to achieve, but here is an example of the system working. I was one of the many protesters in the crowd and was a witness to Joel Angeles outrageous verbal and physical attacks. Those Republicans who would restrict First Amendment rights to peaceful assembly and free speech in the public forum are examples of the worst kind of intolerance especially when they represent a public official such as Audra Strickland, a California legislator. To add physical battery to the abuses must be punished to the full extent of the law

As I said under the article today, the Stricklands refusal to pro-actively address this sordid issue implies approval or endorsement of criminal behavior. Return the Star's phonecalls and do something! Greg Totten, DA, should be livid with the Stricklands. He looks bad as well.

I don't think it is proper for a DA to be actively campaigning like he did. It bothered me when I saw him in the mailers. There are certain offices which should steer clear of this sort of activity and this is one. This is just my opinion. Others may disagree. A simple endorsement was fine, though.

The Sheriff did a good job investigating and recommending criminal prosecution, the D.A. did a good job reviewing the case and recusing himself and the Attorney General did a good job asking the Sheriff for further investigation and bringing criminal charges in a timely manner. While we may complain that the system was too slow, the Case has been filed in 1/2 the time permitted by Statute and the charges are complete, while not excessive. Now a judge or jury will decide the fate of Mr. Angeles as should be the case.

For those who said no criminal charges would be filed, it is time to eat crow. For those who wanted quicker justice, it is time to be calm and supportive of the criminal justice system. For Mr. Angeles, it is time to worry and get the best legal representation he or his supporters can afford. For those who didn't believe what the victims had said from the day of the event, perhaps sitting in the trial will shed light on the details of the event.

Marie - I heard Greg Totten made a robocall for Tony Strickland. Is this true? If so, it is not right at all - particularly since numerous complaints have been filed in the DA's office against the Stricklands. He should stay out of politics.

I got so many robocalls from the Strickland camp I can't remember any more who did what. What sticks in my mind is the mailer with the multiple photos of Totten and Strickland and the letter written on official-looking stationery.

That particular letter talked about how Strickland would "reach across party lines" to get things done. Yet he's currently doing everything he can to keep the Republicans from compromising and working with the Democrats. And as head of the ultra-conservative Club for Growth he did everything he could to defeat moderate Republicans.

That letter gave me the biggest laugh of the campaign.

THAT DAY THIS SUMMER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So in the white corner we have Linda Rhonstadt's former "boyfriend", perpetual candidate Jerry " Gov. Moonbeam" Brown, who knows how he can overturn Prop. 8, now filing charges designed to keep his name in the papers and to prop up the meek, mild victims who had another election "stolen" from them in a less-than-gerrymandered district - why, folks, it was the "dirtiest, most deceitful campaign ( Marie ) has ever witnessed" ( because a Republican won, of course ). I don't know the last time Mr. Brown tried a misdemeanor case in Ventura County, if ever, but this will be a dilly. Step right up, folks. And in the black corner we have the dastardly Joel ( or Jose ? ) Angeles, employed by the famous "Phony Tony" and obviously told by "Phony Tony" to knock some heads ( according to those present and regurgitated for us here ). The writers on this blog get pretty intense about this, so everything they say must be true - right ? Right!
Watch out for those Stricklands - they'll sneak up on you every time. Now let's talk about a Really Diry Campaign - Al Franken!!!!!!!!!!!

This topic sure brings out the idiots. Suggesting that the State Attorney General is coming to Ventura County to try a case is beyond silly. If the District Attorney just did his job and kept out of State politics we wouldn't have a recusal and the Attorney General wouldn't have had to get involved at the request of our local District Attorney. Angeles knocks down men, women and children, in front of reporters and newspaper photographers, and idiots want him to get a free pass. Perhaps if it was one of the idiots who was knocked down, or one of their children or parents, they would hum a different tune.

Gibson thinks it is all politics. Angeles, stinking of whiskey, threatens and knocks to the ground a senior citizen and a young girl, and Gibson thinks the prosecution is politically driven by a Democrat. Gibson fails to realize that the Ventura County Sheriff recommended prosecution to the District Attorney. Gibson fails to realize that the District Attorney determined that crimes had been committed and forwarded the case to the Attorney General because of a potential conflict of interest. Gibson needs to understand that Jose Angeles wasn't knocked to the ground or threatened. It was a senior citizen and a young girl that were thrown to the ground.

Everybody need to take a chill pill and let the justice system do its job. The fact that the DA filed charges rebuts the ridiculous claims of some vast conspiracy theory between Strickland and the DA's office. Either way I'll be glad when this is over so all the grandstanding and hysterics over the alleged crime will finally end.

What a creep this guy is and what a reflection of what the Stricklands are.

The DA did not file charges even though sheriff's deputies recommended them. Instead it sat on his desk until he decided to recuse himself. A state deputy attorney general filed charges. Hard not to believe in conspiracy theories when the DA is actively campaigning for the perp's boss.

It seems to me that the only jack booted thugs around here are the politically driven conspiracy theorists. What a shameful lot of sore losers.

"Crazy", enjoy your day in the sunshine. Stock up on soap-on-a-rope. Your lead soldier Angeles will need it. There is nothing funny or political about knocking down men, women and children on a public sidewalk. His crimes make him a criminal just like a gangbanger or petty street thug. Stay tuned. The wheels of justice are turning.

That afternoon of June 17, 2008 will be one that Joel will not forget for the rest of his life. Tony and Audra cheered him on right to the finding of guilty. Apparently the financial reward was worth the crime. Angeles is no different than any other criminal. Soon though, Angeles will have to serve the time to pay for that crime. I wonder if Tony and Audra will be there for him when that occurs?

"crazy people," it isn't about being a sore loser. Yes, I'm very sad Hannah-Beth lost because she represented me once before and she was terrific. A lot of things were said about her that just weren't true.

I was very upset after I watched what happened at the rally and while everyone else was jumping up and down protesting, I just hung down at the end all by myself. I felt really bad for Jack Phillips. I think at the very least Angeles should pay restitution for injuries. I've run into Jack and his wife a few times since. He was in one of those old-time fiddlers bands and couldn't play for quite awhile because of his injuries. What upset me the most was that because of the political overtones here I thought the whole thing would get swept under the rug.

While I was down at the end by myself, Ferial Masry came back out of the crowd carrying a "Vote for Peace" sign. I talked with her for awhile and she told me somebody from the Strickland crowd called her a "terrorist," I guess because of her Saudi background.

I've gone to several other protests, all peaceful, which is what I also expected here. There was no reason for any of this to happen. The sidewalk in front of the Hyatt covered an entire block. Both groups could have been out there at the same time.

Both groups were out there at the same time Marie. The only problem was caused by Jose Angeles and no one else. Everyone got along, with the exception of Jose Angeles. No one cursed, hit, body slammed, or threatened, other than Jose Angeles. It was a very peaceful protest Marie, except for the antics of Jose Angeles. Calling someone a terrorist is permitted free speech, Marie. Knocking someone to the ground is not legal. Only Jose Angeles has been charged with breaking the law on that day in June and only Jose Angeles needs to pay for his crimes at this time. If Jose Angeles, an employee of the State of California, was breaking the law at the request of his Supervisor, Audra Strickland, then Audra will also have to pay for her crimes. Conspiracy is indeed a crime in California and the penalties are oftentimes greater than the underlying crime.

Shocking that the nuts chanting that the Angeles prosecution is all due to politics. I wonder why this explanation isn't made every time a street thug knocks a citizen across the head. Then again, if the situation is all driven by politics, then perhaps Audra or the Phony Tony should be charged with conspiracy since Angeles was on their payrolls at the time of the crime.

Joel Angeles will never even see the inside of a courtroom, let alone a jail. His lawyers will plea him down to disturbing the peace, at the most, and only to save the state the money and time of a needless trial. There is no possible way that one person severely battered three healthy adults by himself. If he did, why didn't you and the other ten supposed witnesses stop him? Mr. Angeles is no six foot tall rugby player. And the real joke is because you are all so politically motivated, a judge will find it much easier to discredit your testimony. The only reason the Ventura county DA stepped out of the way on this one was because he couldn't find any physical evidence to support your partisan claims and didn't want to be charged by you people of helping political cronies, so he passed the buck. Again sorry to pop the bubble, but the burden of proof in a grand jury is exponentially less than that of criminal culpability, and what civil rights is Mr. Angeles supposed to have violated? The right to Stand up? Certainly, the people who accuse him of a crime were still capable of protesting. I have never seen a shove cause a shoulder to dislocate. Shoulder dislocation is caused by pulling it out of the socket not impacting it from falling from a standing position. My last question is: Why did the alleged victims fail to agree to testify against Mr. Angeles that evening of the protest, and instead waited until the next day, when all four of them simultaneously (possibly coincidentally, lest we blind ourselves to the political motivation of his entire case) arrived at the sheriff's to file complaints? Why the delay?

As far as the tobacco lobbyists and campaign contributions, it may fascinate all of you to know that Hannah-Beth Jackson took as much, if not more money from the evil cigarette representatives, the only difference was that she took it from the National Democratic Party which donated almost 7 and a half million dollars to HBJ. The Honorable State Senator Tony Strickland actually gave any money directly given to him by tobacco lobbyists back to the parties involved.

Don't forget that the courts rely on facts instead of partisanship politics, and we can hope for justice in this matter regardless of party or creed.

Please email me if you have any information (real statistics please) about any of the partisan claims I've read here.

When did he give back the money?

Hannah-Beth did not take money from tobacco companies. Direct contributions to candidates, such as the nearly $90,000 which has been given to Strickland, buys influence. And Strickland voted for Big Tobacco consistently.

So the "honorable" Strickland gave back nearly $90,000 did he? Prove it.

Less than three weeks before the election he maxed out on contributions from Phillip Morris. Why would he take money, deposit it in his campaign account and declare it in online statements to just immediately return it?

http://www.electiontrack.com/lookup.php?committee=1294413

A torn rotator cuff was the injury Phillips sustained. Here, directly from a medical web site, are two things that can cause this injury:

- Direct blow to the shoulder area
- Falling on an outstretched arm

You are without facts. But thanks for posting.

The more you know, the more you realize others lack knowledge. Grand Jury? Where did that come from? Angeles and his attorney worked like heck to convince the Ventura County Sheriff that no crime had been committed. They went so far as to try to convince the Sheriff that the victims actually committed the crimes. They went on to state that they had multiple witnesses to all these claims. But low and behold, after a nearly three month investigation by the Ventura County Sheriff, yep, none other than Bob Brooke's Detectives, the Sheriff concluded that Angeles had indeed committed crimes and should be prosecuted. So forget about the "Democrats" and the State Attorney General. Just look at the report prepared by the Ventura County Sheriff.

Angeles may indeed try to plead to a lesser charge. One has to wonder why he would do so if he didn't commit a crime though. After all, don't the law and order folks always say that the evil criminals always try to plea bargain? In this case though, my bet is on the Attorney General not being willing go plea bargain to a disturbing the peace. The civil rights charge is too significant to trade it for that lesser count. So "haha", laugh alone in your cave. Fortunately we have a judicial system.

I'm not, but if I was Jose Angeles, I'd say the following:

Yep, I had a bit too much whiskey in preparation for the event. I felt good about the large crowd I got out to counter protest the planned tobacco protest. When I saw the protesters approaching, I got excited. I called them names and told their leader "if you step up on the curb, you are going down". When he stepped up on the curb, I chest butted him down. Then all hell broke loose. The protesters were all walking very quickly toward the hotel entrance and I thought I needed to keep them from the entrace where all our event guests would be entering. I ran north on Westlake Blvd. in order to get ahead of them, then turned back south and ran into them. One after another I knocked at least two of them into the bushes and to the ground. One old man got up and started screaming at me telling me he is a Vietnam Veteran and I can't knock him down. He was in my face so I knocked him down again. This time it looked like he was really in pain. Next thing I knew police were all around me and I was put against the front of a police car. I was trying to tell the police that I was a very important person. I said "you don't know who I am". I told them "you can ruin political careers doing this" and I urged them to "take me away so we can talk. The press is watching". But my pleas didn't do any good. For more than an hour I had to stand at the police car. Boy, I was a fool for doing that. I sure do wish it never happened. I should have said I was sorry to the people I knocked down. But I didn't. Had I done so, I think the matter would have gone away. Boy, I sure handled this poorly.

But I'm not Jose and he didn't handle the situation that way I would have. Instead he glared, continued to taunt and in the end tried to have the victims arrested. What a jerk. I always expected more from a State Assemblymember's Chief-of-Staff. I was sure wrong. I guest I shouldn't have expected anymore from the Chief-of-Staff than I expected from the elected official. In the case of the Stricklands, I never did expect anything better.

Angeles didn't handle the incident correctly from beginning to end. I doubt that he will as the trial date approaches either.

When I can pull up the numbers on an impartial site, of the money TS gave back, I will post a link. Sorry, I usually do site my sources, and wouldn't lie if I didn't understand that to be correct.

No one has defended HBJ's INDIRECT tobacco contributions through the DNC.

Also why hasn't anyone answered: Why didn't you guys stop this guy from battering women and vietnam veterans? No one agreed to testify at the scene. Why the delay?

If this is about justice: What about the Republican voter registration gatherers that were beat senseless in Simi Valley and had hundreds of Republican voter registration cards stolen from them? Where is the concern for the integrity of the system rather than one individual?

yes, I'm laughing, not because anyone was hurt, but because your last hope is rested on a judicial system that is broken to begin with, your charges are almost purely politically motivated, and I find humor in the human condition itself.

Heck, in Ventura near Camarillo they wouldn't even have the money to jail Angeles, so why should they even go to trial, and it wasn't his party fighting for the prison hospital to be built.

Hannah-Beth never solicited money from tobacco companies. Strickland did. And he voted against two bills which would've made it harder for minors to buy tobacco products.

An additional $50,000 was solicited for him by the Ventura County Republican Central Committee.

If tobacco companies contributed to a few Democrats, who in turn contributed to the party, which in turn contributed to the Jackson campaign, how could that possibly influence her vote? I donated money to Hannah-Beth. Does that mean my every source of income has a direct influence on her vote? It's all about influence and expectations. Clearly, oil, tobacco and insurance companies donate and expect things from both Stricklands. And they get it.

You won't find a site that shows that Strickland gave back the nearly $90,000 he has received from tobacco over the years. It didn't happen.

Several people called 911 during the protest. People did confront Angeles about his behavior.

Marie I do appreciate that we can have a civil discussion on the matter, but I'd like to inform you that the DNC took 7.5 million in Soft Money contributions last year. I believe Ms. Jackson when she says she didn't directly solicit from tobacco companies. Because of the nature of partisan politics, I believe that if the national party required her local support on an issue directly effected by these contributions she would not hesitate to remain among party lines.

The key to my understanding is that the Stricklands are pro-business republicans. That means that people who sell things are going to support them over candidates who are endorsed by labor unions. It happens to be legal to sell cigarettes in the state of California, and I don't think anyone truly believes The Honorable State Senator would really want minors to smoke.

I'd like to research the AB that we are discussing, but no one has told me which it was that he supported.

You use the same argument to justify HBJ's indirect contributions from the DNC as you condemn The Honorable Senator Strickland for his indirect contribution from the county. Could you please clarify what you mean.

If he didn't give back the 7,200 from Philip Morris than I was lied to by another blog. I apologize if I am incorrect, but I will still be looking for that blog to at least show you guys where, so we can, in a bi-partisan way, make them fact check more thoroughly.

I always have civil discussions. I have also been very clear that I welcome all viewpoints here. I don't encourage trash talk.

Can you send me the link to the other blog where you read that he gave back money? I've left you several links here in the comments and also in the text of the entry above showing where the contributions came from. In 2001-2002 he was actually one of the top receivers of tobacco funds in the U.S. There was $45,000 alone that year.

The tobacco money from the VCRCC was directly solicited by a central committee (by a county school board member no less!) for the SD-19 race.

There are some Dems who take tobacco money, like Calderon. But then he thumbs his nose at the tobacco lobbyists and votes against their interests. Strickland doesn't do that.

· He failed to vote on a measure which would have prohibited self-service sales of cigarettes or free distribution of tobacco products on publicly accessible property. (SB 1510, 2000)

· He voted against allowing the Department of Health Services to conduct stings on business selling tobacco to minors (SB 757, 2001). It was passed into law anyway.

· He voted against restricting non face-to-face sales of cigarettes (SB 1016, 2003). The measure passed anyway and was signed into law by the governor.

Tobacco firms don’t care about the health of our community. They are only interested in selling their product. We can’t let them influence policies which protect our health.

I am having trouble finding what blog it was that I read it on. It was back in September, and much has happened since then, but if I find the link I will post it.

The Honorable Senator Strickland could only have received 7,200 dollars directly from Philip Morris. Are we agreed on that? (Obviously if someone from Ventura County was soliciting money from the same lobbyists, Senator Strickland may have indirectly received those funds. You claim they were direct contributions, but this is an allegation that can't be proven, or else it would be an FEC violation. That money could just have easily been spent on John McCain T-Shirts.)

As far as 757, I believe, since it is an illegal act to sell cigarettes to kids, that it should be law enforcement's responsibility to conduct stings of that nature rather than regulatory agencies which need to be run as efficiently as possible. Why can't the DHS just inform local law enforcement of the violations, and have them conduct the "sting".

If everyone is so opposed to this tobacco money, then why don't they figure out how much exactly they received indirectly, and use in on and teen smoking campaigns instead of their own?

This may be a dilemma of ideals. Why is it the governments job to legislate health? Of course, tobacco lobbyists aren't lobbying for the health of the community, but neither do pharmaceutical lobbyists. It is their job to lobby for the easier sale of their products, and I fail to understand any surprise at this. I also fail to see the problem of businesses lobbying to pro business candidates. If the NRA makes a contribution, wouldn't it only be to the candidate that desires the protection of the 2nd amendment? Why is there any desire for the nanny state? Why should all vice should be legislated? Where do you draw the limit? Do you start making it illegal to buy more than one BigMac?

The State Department of Health Services is the agency responsible for enforcement of tobacco control laws. We need to make sure minors don't have access to cigarettes.

Taking your "legislate health" logic out a bit further, would you also say you don't want health inspectors to inspect restaurants for health code violations? Don't you want safe places to eat?

Tobacco companies sell products that kill people. They work to influence legislation which could curb the sales of their cancer sticks and thus they work directly against public health interests.

The Ventura County Republican Party gave $60,000 to Tony Strickland's campaign. They gave $25,000 to Audra's. The $50,000 they received from Altria (Phillip Morris) was a big, big chunk of their fundraising. Of course the CCPOA gave them lots of money, too. (The Prison Guards Union). They gave $30,000 to the VC Republicans and they maxed out on contributions to Tony, too.

Then they paid for completely false hit pieces on Hannah-Beth themselves. These were among the most loathsome pieces I have ever seen anyone do.

A lovely bunch, that prison guards union.

Just thought you'd be interested that the local Republicans are funded by tobacco and the prison guards' union.

Neither party is supporting the prison hospital in Camarillo. It is being pushed by a court decree. Maybe if partisans weren't trying to claim credit for being against it the community would unite better against it. Leave it to a partisan to make every issue into a left and right argument.

The DNC ( Democratic National Committee ) didn't donate any money to SD 19.

Please name the blog where you saw the comment that Strickland donated the money back. Was it a Republican blog?

The illegality of selling cigarettes to minors is not under the jurisdiction of the DHS. Since it is in the California State Penal Code, it should be enforced by law enforcement and not a government regulatory agency. Since a restaurant is directly regulated by DHS, of course, they should be there doing their job. That's my point, stop trying to waste their time and resources doing cigarette stings, and spend more time cleaning up the kitchens and unhealthy work environments.

you still haven't admitted that the total is only 7,200, unless you add up all of your indirect contributions, which like I said, if you had any proof they went directly to the campaign and violated regulation, you would go to the FEC, or whatever electoral regulatory committee needed that needed to be informed. Even if you add all of that "tobacco" money up it would be at most 150,000? Wasn't this a 13 million dollar race?

About hit pieces, lets not get back onto that issue as, I think we can all agree we received far too much in the mail from both sides.

If your conclusion is that you truly believe the local republicans are all run by tobacco representatives and prison guard reps, then I am really confused.

I didn't say that the dems want to build the prison hospital. I meant to imply that the spending legislation passed by the heavily democratic state legislature has caused a lack of funding for the prison system, and trying to point out the irony that they are the ones that will make it impossible for Mr. Angeles to see the inside of the jail, whether he committed a crime or not.

Republican gathers were beaten senseless in Simi Valley? Boy, that is quite a story. Did it even make the newspaper? Was there even a police report? Or is it just nonsense?

Funny thing about claims that the victims of Jose Angeles waited a long time to file a complaint. Fact is they never did file a complaint. They were interviewed by Sheriffs, then reinterviewed by Sheriff's Detectives. Then the Sheriff conducted a three month investigation and spent considerable time meeting with Jose Angeles and his attorney. Finally the Sheriff determined that crimes had been committed and forward his investigation to the District Attorney. If anyone can find a copy of a complaint that was filed by one or all of the victims, how about posting it. Truth is that no complaint exists. The filing of the criminal complaint by the Attorney General was based on good old police work. They reviewed tapes and photos, talked to witnesses, interviewed possible victims and met with the now accused. The victims have never spoken with anyone from the Attorney General's office. This is a simple matter of a criminal prosecution of Jose Angeles by the People of California.

Here is a link to a story from the Press Enterprise, it's the first link i could find referencing the case in Simi Valley.

http://www.pe.com/localnews/sbcounty/stories/PE_News_Local_W_complaint07.342f9bc.html

I don't know about San Bernardino, but that guy in Simi was definitely attacked and robbed by a group of outraged democratic President-Elect Obama supporters. I saw him the next day, and he quit his job in Ventura County, and I believed moved back to Arizona. I don't believe any charges were filed because the identities of the perpetrators was never discovered.

I know personally about another instance where a woman who was working for a voter registration drive that was being financed by the republicans, but had been taking all registrations from green to libertarian and in between. She was verbally assaulted by two women with threats, who then stole a sign that read "Ventura County-Republican Country" and another Sign that was blank, which she had just purchased. As they yelled at her, they took a pen from their car and wrote illegibly all over her blank sign, vandalizing it, and then speeding away yelling. No files were charged, and she was only emotionally harmed, but this was still completely unneccessary. This woman called me crying, but thankfully, I heard she kept at it and registered another 500 people, both republicans and democrats.

I left the tobacco donation links above for our new friend "haha" and still he does not go to check. OK, here, I'll spell it out for you:

Tony Strickland

2007-2008 Senate 19
Altria (Phillip Morris) $7,200
RJ Reynolds $5,000
UST Smokeless Tobacco $1,250
TOTAL $13,450

2005-2006 State Controller
Altria (Phillip Morris) $5,600
RJ Reynolds $1,500
TOTAL $7,100

2003-2004 Assembly 37
Altria (Phillip Morris) $23,000
RJ Reynolds $2,000
UST Smokeless Tobacco $1,000
TOTAL $26,000

2001-2002 Assembly 37
Altria (Phillip Morris) $38,000 WOW!!!
RJ Reynolds $3,000
UST Smokeless Tobacco $1,000
Lorillard Tobacco Company $3,000
TOTAL $45,000

GRAND TOTAL $91,550

I didn't say tobacco companies and prison guards ran the VC Republicans. They just pay for their activities. You can draw your own conclusions.

Campaign violations in SD 19 would not go to the Federal Elections Commission ( FEC ) because they obviously regulate federal, not state or local races.

Slow down and fact check yourself, or if you are unsure of what you are stating make sure to mention it is a question, not a fact.

Now, the group that you mentioned in Simi Valley. Was this the same group that had their leader arrested for voter registration fraud? If it was I would view their statements with suspicion until I saw a police report.

The difference was in the case we are discussing there were many witnesses, including reporters. For you to be correct the police would had to have been duped by a conspiracy of people that hadn't met each other before that day including reporters all putting their credibility on the line when filing a false police report.

fact check- I realize its not the "F"EC, but I also obviously include that in the statement, I'll include it here for you, so you don't have to strain your eyes looking up.

I said, "you would go to the FEC, or whatever electoral regulatory committee needed that needed to be informed."

I don't feel like looking up the name of the regulatory committee, myself, because you guys are the ones claiming that all of this money went directly to the 19 senate race, and I was just suggesting that if they really believed that was true, then you should report it to the proper authorities, but like I said, since you'll never be able to prove that it's true, that you wont. Obviously, this is a simple oversight on your part, and I don't hate you for it, but read what I write, before you accuse me of being wrong. And it would still be the democrats that would have spent all the money Mr.Angeles' incarceration would cost, so I was right about that too, so maybe someone else needs to fact check.

The man who was attacked in Simi by the group of thugs was completely unrelated to Mark Jacoby and their YPM scandal. Which turned out to be a technicality, albeit an incredibly stupid one. It was just a guy trying to make a buck working for voter registration and he was assaulted. I don't need a police report. I saw the bruises on his face.

And the woman who was harassed in Camarillo, had absolutely no association with either Jacoby or the group involved in Simi.

For me "to be correct the police would had to have been duped by a conspiracy of people that hadn't met each other before that day" ????
wtf mate are you smoking? What giant conspiracy did I supposedly mention? I think

marie-

This is the race we're talking about this is the number I asked for, thank you for confirming it for me.
2007-2008 Senate 19
Altria (Phillip Morris) $7,200

so plus RJ Reynolds, and the smokeless tobacco, whatever that is, we have a grand total of 13k?
Wow I can't believe he took so much? He really got bought a lot of political favors with that giant sum. I'm sure he's walking around putting smokes in the hands of 4 year olds. I want to see how much soft money and attack ads were paid for by tobacco money going against tony through the California democratic party or the national party. The most expensive state race ever? You guys make The honorable State Senator seem like a bad guy for taking 13k out of a 13 million dollar campaign? That's your big complaint.

And let's be honest: That was why you lost. That was your platform. 'don't vote for Tony' he wants to kill your children and feed them cigarettes in the hospital. Instead of proposing new legislation or new ideas, all I ever got in the mail was stuff about "phony tony". The closest thing I got to an idea of how Ms.Jackson would shake up Sacramento was when I saw that it was only unions supporting her.

As far as who runs the Ventura County Republican party, you were the one making the argument that contributions, purchase political favors, what else am I to infer about your statement about prison guards?

Hannah-Beth had a stellar endorsement list, including all but one of our local supervisors and both major newspapers, because people saw that she was a incredible worker for our community with more than 63 pieces of legislation passed. She had great ideas for California and I certainly heard a lot about them. I never heard Tony propose much of anything. And he didn't do much when in office, either. I think he only had 11 pieces of legislation passed, most of little consequence. (Reagan license plates) Audra got nothing at all done last year.

You're worried about unions? The most powerful union in the state, the prison guards, supported Strickland.

So you don't think taking $91,550 from tobacco is a big deal? That's an incredible amount of money for somebody who has only served 6 years total in office. And that, combined with the $50,000 the local Republican Party took, was the reason for the protest. His $13,400 this cycle (received mostly after the protest) was just icing on the cake. But you want more?

He took thousands directly from energy companies like Enron and then voted against capping outrageous electrical bills during the energy crisis.

He has taken more than $70,000 from horse racing interests and sponsored multiple pieces of legislation for them, including one vetoed by Gov. Davis for "unacceptable expansion of gambling in California."

He took $204,640 from the insurance industry and voted against requiring insurance policies to cover maternity services, including prenatal care, pregnancy complications, neonatal care and hospital maternity care.

He took over $70,000 from polluters and opposed legislation to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, protect children's health from pollutants, re-authorize the state's recycling program, ban carcinogenic pesticides on school grounds, increase penalties for pesticide violations near schools, ban clear-cutting of forests, ban mercury in children’s toys, standards to handle toxic perchlorates, and many other environmentally friendly bills.

I pray to be redistricted away from him in 2011. If not, I may move to Fran's district.

Let me see if I am getting what you are saying.

You saw a bruise on someone's face so you know what happened. But when many witnesses, including reporters saw what happened in Westlake you don't believe it.

I guess to you it matters what political party was involved.

The conspiracy theory for you is that all the witnesses, including the reporters told a false story to the police.

haha knows nothing about campaign finance laws. Parties can legally support candidates. It's just where they got their money which reeks.

Ok really guys I'm asking you to read what I have written before you accuse me of being wrong.

"You saw a bruise on someone's face so you know what happened. But when many witnesses, including reporters saw what happened in Westlake you don't believe it...The conspiracy theory for you is that all the witnesses, including the reporters told a false story to the police."

what are you talking about? I believe the person who told me how he got the bruises, when he says he was attacked and had his voter registrations stolen. I also believe that Joel Angeles will not see the inside of a courthouse. I never expressed any opinion in either way of whether or not Mr.Angeles did anything illegal or acted in anyway, shape, or form. I never said witnesses lied, or filed false reports. I never said I saw what happened, nor expressed that I am somehow omniscient. I asked questions about other versions of the story that I had read, correct or not. The fact is that some were answered, and some better than others.

As far as knowing campaign finance laws: Yes, parties can support candidates; that's the whole point. But the accusation of taking money specifically for a certain campaign in this case the 19thSD, and declaring it as a general fund contribution to the county is a violation, and should be reported if its true. Maybe you should study up a little more before telling people they know nothing because obviously you're missing some data yourself. I came here humbly and expressed some opinions. Any information I am incorrect about is more a result of Hannah-Beth's inability to get out her message more than my lack of research.

Marie-
Thanks again for remaining civil. If the 13k was just the icing, then they should have asked for more, absolutely. Just in a business sense it makes sense to take the money, but couldn't after the cute little cartoon from HBJ.

The Honorable State Senator Tony Strickland can hardly be blamed for any fault of Enron giving money to any campaign. The fact is that The Honorable Senator led the fight against the fake energy crisis that Gov. Davis and his liberal cronies helped create, with their price-fixing scandal.

On another note,
Whats wrong with horse racing, or betting on horse racing?

HBJ ran on her stance on perchlorate in the simi valley water. Was that really going to reach across and pull a large number of republican voters?

As far as children's toys, isn't that something that is regulated by the federal government, since 99% are imported?

The root cause of the California energy crisis was the huge increase in wholesale rates for electricity, attributable in significant part to market manipulation by companies like Enron. This was caused by deregulation of energy companies, something heavily favored by Republicans. This began during the Wilson administration and Davis inherited it. Energy deregulation was a dismal failure.

Here's an interesting article about how Cheney schemed to cover the mass market manipulation up:

http://www.truthout.org/article/jason-leopold-cheney-suppressed-evidence-california-energy-crisis

Strickland was just a bit player in this effort to smear Davis. As a result we have Arnold, who is wholly incompetent.

On the horse racing: Strickland sponsored multiple bills for this industry. I don't think it's the job of our electeds to expand gambling in our state.

Senator Strickland has his name on the lawsuit that was filed against Gray Davis, that hardly makes him only a "bit" player. Of course, Enron was responsible for their lack of self regulation, and much of that problem is due to environmentalists opposition to nuclear energy in California, which is another debate in itself. Energy deregulation was a mess, but that can't be blamed only on republicans.

Even though republican platforms include deregulation, it is not as if they could predict the amount of abuse and cover-ups that the energy industry engaged in, or the impending inflated price fixing signed by Gray Davis, who should have researched the problem much more before agreeing to endorse the price caps/price-fixing plan. I think we can share the blame all around Sacramento for dropping the ball on that one.

As far as whether or not it is the job of elected officials to sponsor bills that encourage horse racing/gambling, I ask why should their industry not be represented in the legislature? Especially when the Indian Casino propositions passed during the primary election, indicating that the voters of California are in favor of relaxing restrictions on gambling within the state.

Cheney is greedy, not even I am surprised by that fact. I may not be a liberal, but that doesn't make me oblivious to the facts of life like that. Heck, he got away with shooting someone in the face and leaking the name of a CIA operative.

As far as Arnold: I would rather he pick a side instead of constantly trying to walk a tightrope in between while sitting on the proverbial fence. But you can't possibly blame The Honorable Senator, or the Republicans for him winning over Mclintock or Bustamante. He demands higher taxes, but claims to be fiscally conservative. Again, a whole different can of worms there, but still better than Davis, and barely worse than Wilson. But his approval rating is much better than bush, and would still be a favorite to win his position again next cycle.

Here is another question for you and your colleagues: Now that the election is over, what kind of cooperation have you asked for in trying to create new legislation. Since even the losers of the election are now constituents of The Honorable Senator, they are entitled to representation too. Instead you guys argue with me about tobacco money, and whether or not Joel Angeles will face real charges. Why hold the grudge?

Maybe the editor would be interested in a you and I doing a point/counterpoint blog entry every day. I could definitely keep you busy... haha

The voters got what they deserved by voting thwo stricklands into office.....they are now a huge money making machine....raking in over $300,000 in pay, perks, and benefits from the taxpayers....

Deregulation and the hands-off approach favored by Republicans has been a dismal failure all around. It is a contributing factor to our current economic crisis with the abysmal lack of oversight on the mortgage industry.

I don't think any of our progressive coastal voters now represented by Strickland expect anything more from Strickland than we got from McClintock. He also passed no legislation last year and lived out of a mailbox in Thousand Oaks. I at least respected McClintock.

I have zero respect for Tony Strickland. I have watched him debate multiple times and he is not impressive. His ethics are highly, highly questionable with the number of times his campaign finances have been investigated. These investigations have been mostly called for by fellow Republicans.

The actions of the key player in his organization, Joel Angeles, are reprehensible.

I will wait until the voters figure out what a mistake they made, just like they did with Bush. We here in Ventura at least have Pedro Nava. And the lucky folks in Oxnard have Fran Pavley. Hurray for Fran!

It is sad that you have no respect for these people.

Even I respect Rahm Emanuel: the dirtiest, sleaziest politician off all time, and even helped sell senate seats.

Respect doesn't denote preference. Whether you think they deserve it or not, these people won, and they deserve all the respect that comes with the title and appropriate office. Sometimes, you gotta bite the bullet and try to work with the system you have instead of worrying about fleeing the district...which would only make it that much easier for you to lose next cycle.

Should I move to Canada since McCain Lost? Or France? Yay! Sarcozzi! get past the partisanship, and get something done.

I am surprised that you see drinking water quality as a partisan issue.

There is no proof, witness, or public statements that Rahm Emanuel did anything wrong.

The fact that you called him the dirtiest, sleaziest politician of all time shows you are a partisan extremist. You think he is dirtier than actual Republican former members of congress sitting in prison? Dirtier than the current governor of Illinois? Dirtiest of all times?

That is insane partisan hack talking points in its crassest form.

Too bad Tony Strickland didn't try to get Bush to investigate Enron sooner, but I guess it was easier to be a partisan like you then to look at the real problem.

Enron's leaders were a part of a criminal conspiracy but he went after the person they bullied instead.

Winning a political office does not make somebody immediately entitled to respect. That needs to be earned. So far he has done nothing whatsoever to earn my respect. He's a career politician whose extreme ideology does not mesh with my moderate Democratic views whatsoever. He has produced no significant legislation, has done little community service work to speak of and ran a campaign which was disingenuous at best and sleazy and false at its worst.

He and his wife and Joel Angeles have been the subject of numerous investigations for violating campaign finance laws.

I run into people every day through all my own community service work who toil tirelessly for no recognition and no pay just to make the world a better place.

I have a friend who has turned around the lives of homeless people who everybody else has given up on. Read this:
http://blogs.venturacountystar.com/mlakin/archives/2008/03/the-angel-of-ventura.html

This is the kind of person who earns my respect.

yes, people who do great charitable work deserve respect. People who disagree can also respect each other.

Fact check-as far as Emanuel being the dirtiest, you caught me, I should have said "one" of the dirtiest, sleaziest politicians ever, but I didn't so you are correct, there are worse people in the system than him, but he sill remains on my list of leaders not to trust. The point remains that I respect his office and the power he wields. State Senators can introduce bills on the floor of the senate which is much more than you or I are able to do, and that is something to be respected regardless of partisanship.

And it was davis' job to stand up to those bullies at enron, that's why he was elected: to protect the citizens and the constitution. Or is everything big business' fault and political leaders should bear no responsibility, if they were "bullied" into making bad decisions? Should we excuse Nixon or Kennedy for being bullied into war inside Vietnam? Should we excuse every suicide bomber that was bullied by his local mullah?

Ok, haha, I respect you for hanging in here and being polite and being open and honest about your opinions.

I appreciate your patronage of my blog. I have many friends (and family) who think just like you. I understand you better than you think I do.

I've just seen too much and know too much about the Stricklands to find kind words for them right now.

Of course politicians should be held to account for their mistakes, but my point remains Tony Strickland didn't go after Enron or ask Bush to do anything with the same force that he sued the person that gave in to the criminal conspiracy.

What crime did the new Chief of Staff commit? What did he do wrong in the case of the senate seat in Illinois?

Why would Tony go after the very companies who gave him money for his campaign? He's not motivated by doing what's best for the people, only by doing what's best for Tony (and his party)

Marie- I respect you for blogging your experiences and information, and remaining polite and open-minded. I respect everyone else's opinion as well, even if we disagree on many idealistic issues. I'm glad to read your blog, and discuss these topics in the true nature of free speech.

Obviously, our opinions of the Stricklands differ, but I'm happy and respect the fact we have mostly kept to the issues rather than personal attacks.

Fact Check- It seems that your complaint is then that The Honorable Senator Strickland (Honorable Assemblyman at the time) didn't pursue a legal case against enron, which was being conducted anyway, and the executives were held accountable.

What would you have asked Bush to do?

As far as Emanuel being a criminal, there is obviously nothing that I can prove in court, let alone a blog to convince anyone of his illegitimate acts, but I will try to explain why I do not trust him. First of all, the Chicago political machine he rose to power in is run by labor bosses who have been using questionable campaign fundraising techniques for many years. 2nd: He mailed a rotten fish to a political rival. He was on the board of directors of Freddie Mac in 2000, and should be held partly responsible for the worthless assets and credit crunch of this year. Let us not forget the time he stabbed a knife into a table each time after reading off a list of enemies following the 96 election.

Thread sure has gone in another direction with Marie leading the way. Must be the right of a blog host.

How about further conversation about Joel Angeles? Has anyone talked directly to him? Is getting charged with crimes a once in a lifetime event or has Joel been charged with crimes before?

Joel's Orange County attorney has never tried a case in Ventura County? Why did Joel go with an out of town lawyer?

Joel and his attorney worked hard in trying to convince the Ventura County Sheriff to not file a criminal report with the District Attorney? How does Joel feel about the work of the Sheriff in investigating the crimes?

Honorable and Tony don't go hand in hand. I'll go so far as calling him elected Phony Tony, but not Honerable.

messedup- absolutely, in many directions!

I actually have spoken directly with Joel Angeles, and I don't need to repeat what he has told me, but we can all assume that he maintains his innocence. Mr. Angeles has never been charged with a crime before. To answer your question about his attorney, Chuck Bell Esq. was his original advocate in this case, and is a very large name in legal circles, and also a big supporter of the republican party. Contrary to popular belief Mr.Angeles and his attorney never attempted to convince the Sheriff to not pursue a criminal case. My understanding, which is limited, of course, is that he truly believed he committed no crime and encouraged an investigation of the incident to "clear his name" Either witness reports were not filed the day of the event, or the Sheriff believed more investigation was warranted before suggesting whether the DA should file charges, hence the delay. Then when the Sheriff decided charges could be filed, Totten had to recuse himself, rightfully so, and this is the reason for the long time frame, rather than political maneuvering by the Stricklands or Mr. Angeles. The justice system itself takes tons of time to achieve results, and this is not a slow turnaround between event, and prosecution.

Phony- Honorable is part of his elected title, whether you'll go so far as calling him that, or not, is based your freedom of speech and you have the right not to.

Thanks for the insite "haha", but you left us hanging. If I got this right, Joel hired a top highley regarded attorney to be his advocate. He encouraged an investigatio by the Ventura County Sheriff. At the conclusion of that investigation, the Sheriff determined that Joel had committed crimes. At this point, Joel still believed he didn't commit a crime, so he didn't agree with the findings of the Sheriff's Dept.

You suggest that Totten had to recuse himself. I don't believe there is a requirement for that recusal, but Totten himself determined that he would recuse himself and the case was sent to the State Attorney General. At this point the Attorney General did further investigation and concluded that indeed the Sheriff was correct that crimes had been committed, but went further and determined that even additional crimes had been committed. At that time Joel still concluded that he didn't committed any crime.

I'm just a lay person, but it looks to me like Joel is no different from any other criminal. No matter how may law enforcement agencies determine that a crime was committed, the criminal always professes his lack of any quilt or remorse, even after the jury comes to a verdict of guilt.

Should we believe the Ventura County Sheriff and the State Attorney General, or should we believe Joel? I'm going with law enforcement. They rarely let me down. I sure do wish Joel trusted our law enforcement as much as most of us do.

for clarification, Greg Totten had to recuse himself because in his opinion no charges should be filed, but there was a blatant conflict of interest, and therefore, he passed the buck onto the extremely "unfriendly" Brown, who filed extra charges than those mentioned by the VC Sheriff's dept.

Joel Angeles never hired his advocate, he showed up for free.

And in a general defense, Mr. Angeles' intentions were to keep the peace rather than infringe on civil rights or create any harm to anyone. He is no "head-cracking" goon.

Dream on "HAHA". If you are speaking for Totten, you are all wet. You might want to read his letter to the Attorney General.

Angeles informed the Sheriff that he was represented by counsel and met with the Sheriff with his attorney.

You might want to read the three reports prepared by the Ventura County Sheriff. Your description of what Angeles told the Sheriff isn't in line with what the reports represent.

I don't know what Angeles "is", but he did behave like a drunken goon at the subject protest. I saw him; apparently you didn't.

And here's our first letter to the editor today calling for the recall of the Stricklands. Guess they didn't live up to their campaign promises.

Phony and Fraudra collect their big fat paychecks from the taxpayers for doing nothing.

Messed up- Letter or not, it makes no sense for him to recuse himself unless he did not want to prosecute Joel Angeles. Logically, if he wanted to pursue charges, then he had no conflict of interest because he would be showing no preferential treatment. Regardless, It's up to Jerry now. That's all sort of a moot point anyway.

Whether Mr. Angeles' version of events match the sheriff's report are irrelevant because the facts of the case shall be determined in court, not by the report, or statements alone. Neither you or I are the judge, nor very likely to be the jury either. In this case, we're merely bystanders (some of you apparently witnesses) waiting for an outcome.

Whatever you saw Mr.Angeles do is your interpretation of events, and I have never claimed to know or be a witness of this event. You are entitled to your opinion.

Chuck Bell esq. has been on retainer by the CRP for many years, and that was the representation Joel had at the time, and continued to represent him when Mr. Angeles met with Sheriffs.

Buyer- Opposing unreasonable tax increases and trying to balance a budget, while vastly outnumbered by those who are ideologically and personally opposed to you is not "doing nothing".

How silly. If the D.A. had prosecuted with a conflict of interest, Angeles would have had a slam dunk appeal upon conviction. A conflict doesn't mean the D.A. is pro Angeles. The conflict could have been that the D.A. was at the event where the alleged crime occurred or that he has a professional relationship with Angeles, whether he likes him or dislikes him. Your attempt to simplify the recusal is disingenuous.

Purposely planting a roadblock to negotiation by asking others to sign a pledge to forego even the tiniest of compromises is worse than nothing. It is criminal.

buyer- now, you've gone from: they sit there and get paid to do nothing, to they are committing criminal acts on the floors of the capitol? A bit of a swing?

Messed up- as far as you or I know the DA could simply have been to scared to fight against a liberal media, and passed it on. It doesn't really matter why the AG has the case, but now we'll see if the fruit that comes to bear at the end of this affair are only sour grapes.

All-
We could easily balance the budget if we were to remove all state welfare. And you could have passed the taxes through without any republican votes, if you had won this senate seat. Both will never happen.

What policies would you enact to save the budget? What legislation have you drafted to balance spending and revenue? What should the Stricklands do differently?

I believe the best approach is a combination approach of reforms and limiting some of these special-interest tax credits. This approach would seem to have the most appeal.

Note in a recent Public Policy Institute poll on how to balance the state’s budget, 56% of the likely voters surveyed either wanted to just raise taxes (9 percent) or wanted a combination of cuts and tax increases (47 percent), compared to 32% who just wanted cuts. Clearly the public is warming to the idea that in order to preserve education funding, taxes could be raised.

The combination approach seems the fairest to me and that is what Legislative Analyst Elizabeth Hill advocated before her retirement. I am a big fan of hers and was sorry to see her go. Her approach selected tax credits or exemptions for reduction or elimination because they are not achieving their stated purposes or are of lower priority. Her plan made no broad-based tax rate increases.

She also had a long list of money-saving reforms.

This is a good place to start. Politics is the art of compromise. Our deficit is too big to just cut and not raise revenues in some quarter. Signing a "no new tax" pledge means you are unable to compromise without fear of being targeted in the next election by your fellow Republicans.

Marie-
I think if the budget problems keep up the way that they have been, a poll would suggest that 99% of people would take a tax hike, just to be done with all the arguing for another year. So, I'll take those numbers with a grain of salt.

We have enough taxes in the state. We have too much spending.

It used to make sense: Gas taxes would pay for roads, bridges, and tunnels. Property tax would pay for policemen, who protect your property. Income tax would go to the government for their representation, and consumption taxes are paid to the government for doing business within the state. Any other tax is superfluous and usually only benefits those without financial stability, rather than the public as a whole (welfare).

And what compromises have come from the democratic side? They just keep barking, "it's just never going to work without new taxes"
Then after they tried to slip around the state constitution with their "net gain/loss" argument that they didn't need 2/3s of a vote. Some one find that list of money saving reforms!

We could always just deny emergency medicine to people without documents. That would solve 30 million of our deficit.

Every child could receive a year off from school, at age 16, to work and raise money for their college education. This way we can eliminate financial aid.

We could annex Riverside County and give it to Arizona in exchange for cash, but we should get to keep Palm Springs.

We could stop passing ballot propositions (mostly due to an uninformed public) that borrow billions of dollars with no plan of how to return the money. I mean a bullet train to SF? Really? That money can't be used better by someone else? We are locked into most of this horrible spending. Or even voting on giving chickens more rights than gay people is a waste of time and money compared to our other problems, but the public is completely unaware... Someone help the Sheeple.

I say, we collectively make a list of ways to solve the budget crisis, and I will pass them on to Sacramento: As Arnold would say,
"Let's just put it all on the table"

You may be interested to know that of the 33 percent state general fund spending has increased in the last five years, ($77.5 billion in 2002-03 to $103.5 billion in 2007-08) three-fourths is due to inflation (17 percent) and population growth (7 percent). That leaves about $7.4 billion in real spending increases.

Spending on the things Democrats champion like education and social programs was FLAT. What accounted for the increase?

Spending on prisons increased by $4.3 billion and payments to local governments to cover losses of revenue from license fees on cars was another $3.1 billion. Who wanted to lock up more prisoners and cut the car taxes?

Republicans.

Do you think the Dems wanted to cut almost $4 billion from education? That's a compromise, my friend. And there were many others. The Republican version of the budget wanted to cut $10.6 billion from our kids. That's too Draconian and once people understand what that will mean to our children they will be upset.

Budget figures are boring. Nobody wakes up until it affects them personally or somebody they know.

I agree with you 100 percent on ballot propositions. I don't like them and rarely vote for them or sign petitions. But I did vote for Prop. 11 and I would vote for something with meaningful campaign finance reform in a heartbeat.

Marie, you can' exclusively blame republicans for the spending increases or tax reductions in Sacramento. It was Gray Davis who first signed into law the reduction in vehicle license fee, so please don't act as if this was supported on just one side of the aisle. As far as the increased cost of prisons, it was Gray Davis and the democrats that signed off on the massive salary and pension increases for the prison guards union. Prison guards used to make far lower pay and benefits than police officers, but their union lobbied to have their pay and benefits tied to CHP pay scales. Don't forget that it was the democrats, under Gray Davis, that first gave away 3 percent at 50 pensions to the CHP, which subsequently started a tidal wave of pension benefit increases across the state. So naturally the prison guards union wanted the same deal, and it was the democrats who gave it to them. The CCPOA writes some pretty big checks to finance political campaigns for republicans AND democrats.

BTW, on the topic of pension increases, I was just reading in the Sunday Star about the $4 million budget deficit being faced by the City of Ventura. Funny how just this past October they could afford to give away a $1.2 million pension increase to firefighters so that they can retire at 90% pay. Of course with the declining stock market I bet the price tag of that benefit is going to rise dramatically, resulting in more tax increases and even greater cuts to public services. How many police and firefighters positions will need to be left vacant to pay for this pension giveaway? How many programs to the poor and disabled will have to be cut so that a select group of public employees will be able to enjoy lavish retirement benefits? How many librarians and clerks will have to be laid off as a result of this decision? As the fiscal situation in the City of Ventura continues to deteriorate I'm sure that liberals will blame the problem on Prop 13, but I will make it a point to remind you of our discussion on this topic.

Marie, in your post you also mention that the State of California had ONLY $7.4 billion in real spending increases. Keep in mind that, as you rightly pointed out, these increases are above and beyond increases based on inflation and population growth COMBINED. That means that in the past five years the state has unnecessarily expanded spending beyond population growth and inflation by $7.4 billion ANNUALLY. That type of out of control spending growth is inexcusable. I know that it doesn't come close to covering the entire deficit, but the real point is that we should have never put ourselves into this position. We had HUGE increases in revenues over the past decade and should have been paying off debt and building reserves so that we could get through tough economic cycles. Instead the State irresponsibly spent everything, and when even that wasn't enough they borrowed even more. When the state received windfall increases in tax revenues they spent it all and more, but when revenues are now falling due to the bad economy they want to tax their way out of the problem. Never mind the fact that increasing taxes in a poor economy will likely make things even worse.

Bubba- Kudos on the post.

If you give a penny to Sacramento, to spend, a couple of things will happen. First, everyone will think its a dime, so they'll want one 10th to spend on their district's pork. Second: 9/10ths of it will be spent on the paperwork to spend the final 10th. Leaving everyone with 1/10 of a tenth of a penny to fight over again and again. yay! Fiscal Liberalism.

Anyone else read the study that said: More people would take 50,000 dollars if they knew everyone else was getting 25,000, than would take 100,000 if they knew everyone was getting 200k?

haha, of course. Money is a relative measure of success, not an absolute one. Would you rather have twice as much power as your neighbors, or half as much? It's totally Darwinian.

Bubba, I don't believe I was disagreeing with your points on firefighter or prison guard pensions in our discussion on an earlier thread. I was merely correcting your facts in a few areas. The percentage is based on number of years worked, so 90% is not an automatic.

Need I remind you again that Strickland and the Republicans received lots of dough from the prison guards' union in addition to IEC expenditures? Do you think they may want favors later on?

Simi Valley recently increased pay for its police officers, so your comments in this regard must also be directed there.

One thing we did in this state when revenues were up was give tax credits to special interests like the tech and recording industries and I don't think we can afford these things any longer. But rescinding special-interest tax credits qualifies as a tax increase in the minds of the Grover Norquist "no new taxes pledge" signers, so that won't fly.

And it's true that the VLF reductions were bipartisan (Hannah-Beth voted for them), but when Davis tried to rescind it to make up for a huge deficit, he was pilloried. Reimbursing local governments for the car tax cut costs the state 25% more each year, according to our state treasurer:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-cap13-2008oct13,0,4936838.column?track=rss

Republican Govs. Ronald Reagan, George Deukmejian and Pete Wilson all went with a combination approach of cuts and tax increases. Our current Republican governor wants to do the same.

The minority Republicans need to come back to the sandbox and learn to compromise.

He also said "why would he argue for a democratic proposal to the rest of the republicans if he wouldn't sign it himself."

and said that democrats need to admit that spending needs to be cut before they can come to the table and ask for tax increases.

Republican governors are just as responsible as democratic ones that all have spent budget surpluses like crazy people during good economic times, and failed to save the money from their surpluses in case of bad economic times.

here would be my compromise: First offer would have to have a set ratio of cuts:taxes, and I would require all revenue to be labeled at "taxes" We should charge a 5 dollar re-entrance fee at the border of Mexico. We need some sort of stimulus package as well.

I think an acceptable agreement would 2$ in spending cuts for every dollar tax increased.

Here is a list of what the Dems proposed to cut:

• $4.5 billion cut to K-12 schools and community colleges.

• $657 million in savings by cutting state employee pay (details to be negotiated through collective bargaining)

• $132 million from UC and CSU.

• $656 million grant cuts to recipients of SSI/SSP program for low-income elderly, blind and disabled.

• Cut prisons $568 million

• $100 million to cuts cost of living for CalWORKS.

• $750 million general fund cut for local law enforcement (although $510 million would be restored by using special funds).

• $112 million in cuts to regional centers for the developmentally disabled.

• $156 million in local transit funds.

whats the remaining deficit?

Marie,

I agree that we need to take a look at some revenue options, though in a tough economy we have to be very careful about tax increases. Increasing taxes doesn't always result in increased revenue. If the economy stagnates as the result of a tax increase you could actually drive revenues lower. I have to wonder how many Los Angeles County residents will be out buying new cars if the tax rate in that county rises to 10.25% (previous rate of 8.25%, plus additional .5% for transportation projects recently approved by voters, plus proposed 1.5% increased to solve current budget mess). The retail industry is already struggling in a weak economy, and jacking up sales taxes will likely make things even worse. If tax policies drive even more companies out of business it could actually result even in lower revenues to the state, plus additional unemployment costs to the state for all those retail employees that will be out of work. The funny thing about lowering taxes is that it usually results in HIGHER revenues because of increased economic activity. Trying to tax your way out of a fiscal problem is a lot like standing in a bucket and trying to pick yourself up by the handles.

That being said, I do think that we should consider closing unnecessary tax loopholes. And raising the VLF back to the previous level (which by the way was excessively high and many times higher than what most other states charge for vehicle registration) should be considered, at least temporarily.

But we also have to recognize that this state has a SPENDING problem and that we would not be in this situation had state legislators acted responsibly with taxpayer money. We are now in a situation where we need to make substantive cuts. I'm dismayed that the programs that are on the chopping block are always ones that drastically cut services to the public. I think that public employee unions need to make some significant givebacks. That would go a long way since the bulk of the cost of government is in the pay and benefit packages of government employees.

That means that in education we need to consider a BALANCED approach that makes modest cuts to teacher pay and benefits in order to reduce the impact of classroom cuts that impact programs for children. Why should teachers enjoy increases in pay and benefits during the good years, yet in the lean years the only thing that is considered are things like increasing class sizes, cutting music programs, eliminating school bus services, etc. If 85% of school district budgets are spent in pay and benefits for employees then we also need to look there when cutting costs and not just at the sliver of a percentage that goes into the classroom for for student programs.

Also, I don't see why the governor should have to submit to collective bargaining to resolve this budget mess. Legislators need to make cuts NOW. How about eliminating two of the FOURTEEN paid holidays, as the governor suggested. How about eliminating some of the ridiculous overtime rules that are abused by many public employees. It should be just like the private sector where you need to work over 40 hours in a week before becoming eligible for overtime. Yet we spend BILLIONS in overtime costs because of overtime rules that allow employees to qualify for overtime even when they work less than 40 hours per week. I had a relative who was employed by a public agency who regularly gamed the system by calling in sick during the week and then volunteering to work on weekends because weekend work was automatically paid at time-and-a-half. That kind of stuff needs to end.

As far as I can tell the democrats are still not serious if they won't address overtime rules and excessive paid holidays. I also noticed of the $17.1 billion in cuts that only $657 million was from employee pay cuts, which only represents 3.8% of the proposed cuts. And the democrats want to make those cuts subject to collective bargaining, which means there is no guarantee that there will actually be an agreement. Using collective bargaining it is more likely that the only way cuts would be made would be to give something in exchange. For example, when Gray Davis was facing his own fiscal crisis he negotiated "cuts" with various unions which resulted in an agreement that simply deferred pay increases for a couple of years in exchange for benefit increases. So the net result was an even more generous contract. There is no way that the governor should agree to collective bargaining. This problem is too big and tough decisions need to be made now.

no!!!!!!!! the state's engineering union needs at least 80k a year and full benefits for all of its members, or else all of the bridges will collapse, and millions will die.

I say you cut education by the number of drop out percentage your district has. LA has a 40% drop out rate. why don't we just cut their funding by 40%?

Collective bargaining ruined the NHL for a year, and California is much more important.

How about instead of jails we build Tent cities in the desert like the guy in arizona. And, we'll make them grow their own food, and pump their own water.

Where is Jose Angeles when the State needs him? Why isn't he bashing heads in the Assembly to get the budget resolved? Come on Jose, go door to door and knock some sense into those girlie men in the Assembly. Put your skills to work for the benefit of the People of California for once.

I realize that is supposed to be satire, but there are those that believe how you just described him is what Joel Angeles is really about, and they are mistaken.

Budget solution no.8: Sell Catalina to Oregon.

In that case "haha", Jose better try his hardest to negotiate a guilty plea or become a charmer for twelve Ventura County jurors. If you get on the jury, he is 1/12 of the way there. If I get on, he is down one.

Why are the places with Democratic legislators lucky? Dems have long controlled the legislature in this state and the power to pass legislation along with it. I constantly hear about how local Republicans are "do nothings" and haven't passed any legislation. Meanwhile, Hannah-Beth Jackson bragged over and over again about how many bills she passed. Well, bravo. Our state is in stellar shape. Our current economic crisis is the result of rampant government growth and regulation brought on by Democratic proposals. How do you explain that California has the fifth highest tax rate and is rated the third worst business friendly environment in the country? Is Jose Angeles chest bumping them all across the state border?

Did we legalize marijuana when I wasn't paying attention?

Lucky-
Since liberal democrats have been unwilling to compromise at all on spending/revenue issues for the past 16 years, and half that time with a super majority to back it up, they have been able to blame all of the problems in the capitol on the republicans. One party government leads to the tyranny of the majority, and that is the case in Sacramento

They are lucky to have legislators who would rather push carbon credits and global warming legislation than pass tax incentives for local small business growth. Remember that it is patriotic to pay taxes!

ynot-if you or I end up on the jury panel I would hope we would be excused since we both have prejudices towards th event, and predetermined sets of facts that we would rely upon, rather than only the facts presented in the courtroom. That being said, Joel Angeles will never see a jury, and I doubt he will actually enter any courtroom himself.

Prepare yourself for a big laugh, "haha". You will see Jose in Court one day soon and he will be saying the words "guilty".

Oh, please. I will cut "haha" and "Lucky?" some slack for posting on the end of a 83-comment thread, but I clearly refuted any points you have lately made in my earlier comments.

How is the long list of cuts I detailed above not a compromise? Democrats are proposing to cut $4.5 billion from K-12 schools and community colleges. The Education Coalition has advocated a no-cut stance for education just like Grover Norquist has asked for a no-taxes pledge.

The Democrats even asked for MORE cuts than Republicans did in some areas.

And "Lucky?" our state is in budget trouble principally because of the crummy economy. The economic meltdown came under Bush's watch and was exacerbated by bad decisions made under his watch:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/business/21admin.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&hp&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1229853618-X4MjhPFc17dv81USSo%20pIw

As I posted above, spending on things Democrats champion, like education and welfare programs, has been flat. The biggest growth in the state budget has come from spending on prisons and reimbursing local governments for the money they were set to lose from our governor cutting the vehicle license fees.

Even our ardent conservative Bubba agrees we need to do some revenue enhancements.

It is our minority Republican bloc which is holding up the budget. That is unquestionable.

what about a voluntary tax?

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/topic/15.html

Yes, it is with great interest that I follow the arrest of Joel Angeles from the Strickland campaign staff. He has been around for awhile and so has the dirty campaign tactics of the Stricklands. Having run against Mr. Strickland twice for the 37th Assembly seat, I am very familar with his antics and those of his power hungry staff to disrupt, lie, cheat or steal to gain political power. The voting public needs to be more aware of these antics! They are shameful. Keep up with the diligent reporting. Power to the press!

Don't worry, Roz. I'm on it. Why just today I heard he was surrounded by angry citizens at the little card table he set up in Goleta.

Thanks for posting and do visit again.