They tried that in Germany...it doesn't work. Try teaching them about the Constitution and the President's sworn duty to defend it.

I have shown news and speeches from President George W. Bush for the past several years to my jr. high school students during advisement class. I have asked that the students be respectful and attentive. Now my students have a chance to listen to President Barack Obama.

I think all school children and parents should welcome the address. It is part of being a citizen of the country. Protesting it is STUPID!!

Right-wingers need to get a dose of reality outside of Faux News and realize Obama won the election and is our President. If we let that George W. Bush speak to our kids, there should be no issue with Obama doing so. George W. was a President where the school kids likely had a better capability of making coherent sentences than him!

Got that, kids? You should be taught to respect your president. Whether it be respect-worthy Barack Obama or total dunce George W. Bush who has been repeatedly disrespected in these blogs.

marie lakin,just how long have you been a resident of ventura.And yes, you are right,the parent is the moral tutor of there children and the day may be coming when you will need to defend that belief.

Hey Randy who tutors you?

Great letters today in Star. Marie did you see? Bottom two:
http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2009/sep/10/no-headline---ob7wclets10/

"But I've also taught them to respect the office."

All people, including Presidents, earn respect; they aren't owed it.

It would be nice if we had any politicians worth respecting.

O-BAAAAAAAA-ma is just like every other politician in this country.

It's time for a revolution.

I'm hard pressed to think of a more absurd political discussion than this one about the current President of the United States addressing school children.

I would say, that the office does deserve respect. The office-holders conduct in that office may change that level of respect.

I think that pretty much everyone, President or not, deserves respect...until they fail to measure up to that level of respect. I think it's a truism that respect granted, once betrayed...is a difficult thing to recapture.

I think that there are elements of political parties both left and right, that form that basis of respect (or the lack of) long before the office holder actually does anything. Those people are ideologues, they won't be shaken from pre-concieved beliefs regardless of actions actually taken.

For the most part, when constructive discussions are to take place here, they are as useless as a hip pockets on a hog. They tend to toe to the same "party" line regardless of circumstance or reason. They contribute little to discussion and less to solutions.

On these boards they seem to be mostly enthralled by the sound of their own comments, and those that feed in with them. Such a back-slapping society these boards have become of people congratulating each other for...agreeing with each other.

I think all Presidents should address all segments of the society they ostensibly lead. It won't always work out, not every address will please,or even be appropriate but it is in that discussion that we will weigh the merits of the Presidents leadership on issues. Criticism after the event might make more sense than before the event.

On a different note, I've not noticed legions of 3rd graders signing up to be Maoist "Red Guards"....seems the concerns of the right about a "Socialist" agenda are without justification...at least after the fact, though they surely asserted it before the fact.

It wasn't the fact that Obama wanted to address school children so much as it was the Department of Education lesson plans that were to be used before and after the speech.

Here is part of an email I sent today to Dale McFeatters over his essay, "Subliminal socialism: What Obama really said."

--------

The speech was completely innocuous. But you miss the entire objection, which was the lesson plans that were supposed to be used by teachers before and after the speech. The original ones contained such questions to students as: "What do you want to tell the president about your teacher?" "What do you want to tell the president about your parents?" And, "What can I do to help President Obama?" These raised a great alarm and justly so. After public outcry the Department of Education quietly revised the lesson plans and the final versions contained no questions at all.

--------

Many don't trust the president for good enough reasons to be suspicious of his intentions. Those were not appropriate questions.

I'm glad the speech was completely innocuous. But I have to wonder what it might have needed to say for the, "What can I do to help President Obama?" question to have any meaning.

Respect is earned. It's not automatic, not even for a president. And frankly, the office is nothing by itself. It has meaning according to the occupant of the position. And where was the great complaint when the left was so disrespectful of George Bush? There was no respect for the president or the office. Sorry, but this one doesn't fly.

Roy,

Here is the link to a document produced by the Dept. of Education:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/10582301/President-Obama’s-Address-to-Students-Across-America-September-8-2009

I don't see the questions you mention there. It was posted on August 30. It is completely innocuous.

Can you provide a link to the other set of questions? I'm sorry, but I'm not having a problem with those, either.

I think the trouble here is that our president is perceived as too liberal by some and just about anything he does reeks of liberalism to them, no matter how benign. Our last president was a staunch neoconservative who started a preemptive war which cost thousands of lives and trillions of dollars. We're still paying for that and his tax cuts for the wealthy. And his failed economic policies.

Neoconservatism doesn't work. Francis Fukuyama, one of the fathers of the neoconservative movement, has backed away from the ideas which helped fuel the Bush presidency.

I'd like to give Obama a chance. Bush had 8 years.

But in the end, I still teach my children to respect the office and the democratic process. This blog was about the values we instill in our children.

Marie,

As far as I can tell the new lesson plans replaced the old.

The link you gave seems to be for a pre K-12 group which I did not see previously. I could not find the revised lesson plans I saw before the speech on the link to ed.gov on that page and ed.gov is where they were posted.

Unfortunately many people read the original plans and as I remarked, some of those questions were completely inappropriate.

Also as I said, I'm very happy that the speech turned out to be completely innocuous.

You haven't addressed my comments about Bush versus Obama as far as respect for a president.

I really wish that it wasn't necessary to be so suspicious of politicians. But they've proven over and over that I must be. I started out in life too trusting and was disappointed far too many times, even by George Bush who signed some awful laws into force.

Neo-conservatism is not my cup of tea. I have a firm grip on reality and I learn from anyone I can learn from. My brand of conservatism is based on what I observe actually working and what history teaches actually works. Nothing is perfect and therefore, big government solutions to what doesn't work have characteristically been trouble. Try No child Left Behind for starters. That one will be a millstone around the neck of education for as long as it's around and it needs to be killed off.

Well, Roy, I still think kids should be taught to respect the office and the electoral process for our commander in chief, regardless of political persuasion. I would not have pulled my child from a classroom when Bush was speaking. What is that teaching them? Think about this.

I will agree with you wholeheartedly about NCLB. But we already have socialized health care from the VA and Medicare. Are you unhappy with how those programs are run?

It seems to be forgotten there is but one individual that represents all of us. The President of the United States of America.
It seems to me the office must always be respected.
Regarding President Obama and his address to the school age among us it should be remembered the man was elected by the majority and until proven otherwise should always be allowed to speak his mind and principles to his country men and women.
My views were not represented by our past president. I thought he was wrong; not evil. Even so it never occurred to me to censor the President of the United States.

Marie,

By all the reports that I can find, VA medical care is abysmal. Medicare is going broke and those who spent a lifetime paying for that benefit for others are now being charged a premium of $97 a month, an amount that some find very difficult to come up with. I'll soon enough be dependent on it myself and I don't like what I see.

In today's star is an editorial about, Money and the stars." We're spending billions a year on a national ego trip called manned space exploration from which, in the end, we get nothing that solves any problem we have here on Earth. Suppose that money went into healthcare. What a benefit it could be to everyone!

I rest my case about medical care.

I truely wish I could respect this president, but I can't. He simply does not meet my minimum standards for respect.

Marie, I am a VA patient and you haven't a clue. It is an excellent system superior to the Mayo Clinic. It is a benefit given the military for their service. Today I visited my father's grave at Arlington. It, to, is a benefit given our military for their service. Do some research for once - ask me. Respecting the office of the presidency is certainly a noble goal, as long as the president-on-duty is not attempting to overthrow the foundations this country was founded on - capitalism and free enterprise. Democrat hired gun Tim Gallagher ( ex-VC Star dude-for-hire-for-anything-apparently )spent half the recent time at Ms. Capps' " infomercial-for-Obama" trying to shut up 250 older seasoned citizens. That's the agenda. Marie. Can you and your Code Pink types grasp that? Concerning the students - it was the accompanying lesson plan. You conveniently forgot to mention the Democratistas wanted hearings when Geo. Bush I gave a speech to students.

Marie: I spent the weekend in DC......... OVER 1,000,000 people agreed with your "disrespectful" anti-Obama parents indicating they feel the same way as the parents do - with signs and attitude - that's more than the Million Man March Obama was on and more than showed up for Martin Luther King's "I Have A Dream " speech. They reduced the CNN crew to insignificance. The place was spotless afterward - not at all like the ObamaSlobs in January. You can read this, Marie, in the London Daily Mail, where journalism is still an honorable profession and the whole story is given. The Wash. Post fraudulently suggested " tens of thousands" ( not millions ) showed up and that Man from the Montana School of Journalistic Excellence, Joe Howry, will probably print the same thing - an act I suggest borders on treason, but them Democrat types always think the end justifies the means, right, Marie ?

Juan - I lived in the DC area for years and The Washington Times is considered the counterpoint to the Washington Post. Even they are saying that the people numbers in the "tens of thousands". I don't even know if the site of Free Republic is saying a million - I'll go check.

Lambro and Kristi Jourdan, THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Tens of thousands of conservative "tea party" protesters brought their angry grass-roots movement to the steps of the Capitol on Saturday in a muscular political demonstration against big government spending, budget deficits, taxes and President Obama's sweeping health care plan.

In a patriotic, flag-waving "March on Washington" that conservative leaders said was a newly energized political movement determined to stop the Obama administration's tax-and-spending programs, the protesters stretched for blocks up Pennsylvania Avenue to a massive rally on the West Lawn of the Capitol, chanting, "USA," "Enough, Enough" and "We the people."

Rally leaders estimated the crowd at about 75,000, but others said it was larger than that. Organizers had expected between 25,000 and 50,000.

OK - so the New York Times, Fox News and all the other major news agencies say 10,000's. In fact, the only place that says 1,000,000 is the site you mentioned. I went to it and there is picture after picture of anti-Obama stuff being featured. I am sure that isn't an accurate portrayol of the Tea Party either.

Juan, the news outlets I listened to put the crowd at about 35,000. I merely asked Roy about the VA system. He was the one who answered it was abysmal, not I. So obviously a government-run health system is working, according to you.

Please read more carefully.

Mr. Juandeveras,
Glad to hear the VA is treating you right. Did you know that's a government program?

The est. 60,000 people in DC on Saturday were for and against all sorts of things.

Mr. Juandeveras,
Where was your love for capitalism and free enterprise when the Republicans were giving Haliburton no-bid contracts for billions? What about when the Bush Republicans were spying on the American people? What about the crimes against humanity committed by the Republicans? Is that what your Father fought for?

Jaun, read the front page of the LA Times today. It is far-right nuts who give conservative Republicans like me a bad name and we are really tired of it.

Some fear GOP is being carried to the extreme
The Republican establishment hopes cooler heads will prevail over strongly anti-Obama parts of the conservative base.

By Peter Wallsten

September 14, 2009

Reporting from Washington - Amid a rebirth of conservative activism that could help Republicans win elections next year, some party insiders now fear that extreme rhetoric and conspiracy theories coming from the angry reaches of the conservative base are undermining the GOP's broader credibility and casting it as the party of the paranoid.

Such insiders point to theories running rampant on the Internet, such as the idea that Barack Obama was born in Kenya and is thus ineligible to be president, or that he is a communist, or that his allies want to set up Nazi-like detention camps for political opponents. Those theories, the insiders say, have stoked the GOP base and have created a "purist" climate in which a figure such as Rep. Joe Wilson (R-S.C.) is lionized for his "You lie!" outburst last week when Obama addressed Congress.

Yeah they go home from D.C. and change into their hooded robes again.

Juandeveras and Marie,

I'm glad to hear that you, Juan, are getting good service from the VA. But I reiterate, I've seen some very bad reports on VA facilities. I suspect that like many other things it may depend on where you are.

In the past I've seen good hospitals and not so good. One very good one suddenly turned lousy on me. I was married for 31 years to a childhood onset diabetic and hospitals were a common thing in our lives so I've plenty of experience of them. Perhaps I should have qualified what I said about the VA the first time. Good service is definitely what everyone deserves from a hospital or a doctor or any medical facility.

Without intending to appear prideful, I suggest that people who comment here, including Marie, not only maintain a higher level of discourse, but stick to factual offerings: Ray Hogue has negatively spoken about the VA based on hearsay and minimal 3rd party personal experience. Yes, the VA is "government healthcare" that has had an evolutionary history covering almost a century and consists of a series of teaching hospitals and a network of clinics ( with a brand new one in Oxnard ). It is not set up for public use, but for the use of the military. Yes, M.A.S.H. was based on "government healthcare", too - 'nuff said. There are Christian chaplains on military bases but that has nothing to do with the "separation of church and state ". Katie Teague has talked about those in D.C. as "crazies", claiming herself as the legitimate Republican present, yet Katie is a person most would classify as a R.I.N.O. [ Republican in name only ]. I was in D.C. for the event; the CSPAN complete coverage of the event will clearly indicate what ws going on throughout the entire event - I suggest you all watch it in re-run. Peter Wallsten references " insiders" - what "insiders", Peter - name them or kindly refrain. Those here working feverishly to minimize the customer count at the event have all failed to reference the Google count of 1,700,000 by a particular West Coast newspaper. So far, I'm the only one writing here who was actually present at both the D.C. event and the Lois Capps event, yet everybody writes as if they were aware of all the facts. While standing in front of the Capitol over the weekend, I was particularly moved by the statue of the grim-countenanced Ulysses Grant, a former liquor-sotted Army officer, dedicated to ending the Civil War and to pulling this country back together, formerly based at a no-name outpost in Eureka, CA and who literally leveled the South, with Sherman's help, after Lincoln had gone through a series of loser generals, sitting astride his giant metal horse. On either side were action-statues of enlisted men of the same era giving their all to hold the country together as well. One sensed this same no-nonsense spirit among those gathered in front of the Capitol for the event. It is a grim point in our history and the mothers, in particular, as you will note in the CSPAN coverage, are really ticked. Joe Howry, I suggest you begin to give the citizens of this community some balanced coverage henceforward of your paper is going to become the Ventura County Fishwrap. The history of thhis country has been festooned with loser generals and loser presidents. U.S. Grant went on to two terms as president after he re-united the country. We need another U.S. Grant not a Joker.

John,

I'm all for raising the level of dialogue. I'm glad you are, too. So is that why you emailed me the photo of Obama portrayed as a Witch Doctor with horns in his nose with the caption "Obama Care," complete with a hammer and sickle emblem?

And you copied Joe Howry, too. So maybe he could run that as "balance."

Did you mean for me to post that? I suppose I could. But I just didn't find it all that amusing. Guess I'm just dull.

John,

You really damage your credibility when you speak ill of Katie. Katie is dedicated to the Republican Party. Katie has bravely fought those within the party who are destroying it. She was fighting them when it wasn't so fashionalble and the VCRCC was at their peak of power.

Katie Teague is a Republican an American can be proud of and if the party is to survive it will be because of people like her.

but I couldn't agree with you more on Joe Howry... Have you thought about writing him an angry letter?

Thanks Student, it is so nice for you to defend my honor!

John obviously doesn't know me because he sure wouldn't call me a R.I.N.O. In fact, I would venture to guess that you have been talking to someone on the Far Side Gallery. As most people know, I am Pro-Life, Pro-Guns, Pro-Troops and above all Pro-Integrity.

I've been to the CPAC conference twice (referenced in the LA Times article). Like I said, it is the nuts that give conservatives like me a bad name. I just had someone forward me some pics from the DC TeaParty and buried in it was the quote that ABC news said there were 1,000,000 people there. Well, ABC News has a disclaimer on their website now that they never said that and they guess there were 60K to 70K people. ABC radio guestimated that it was tens of thousands. I had to email back this info because I didn't want her to sound like a Kool-Aid drinker.

Don't be a Kool Aid Drinker - think for yourself and research the facts!!! It is what I do and the only people that hate me for it is those that are telling lies.

I thought the picture of Obama as witch doctor was hilarious. It had an impact, as it was forwarded to you several months ago. Why don't you print it and let the public decide. However, it's not as catchy as Obama-as-Joker seen all over Ventura lately. Why don't you print both. And by the way, does the Star underwrite any conservative blogs as you indicate they do yours ? Thanks for acknowledging you get paid for this.

As to "speaking ill" of Katie. If someone says a person is a Republican in name only (RINO), most thinking conservative people understand that is a comment on their political views rather than a comment on them personally. A RINO wants to just simply get along with the libs instead of sticking up for conservative values. So please explain how referring to anyone as a RINO is "speaking ill" of them. I consider Colin Powell a RINO - he is a Republican who supported Obama. I do not know Katie. I have read her many comments and that is my take on what I've read. She claims to belong to the "Republican establishment", but most in that group are in the RINO category. Please explain how her "honor" was defamed by yours truly. Apparently conservatives are "far right nuts" to her. Katie, please tell us how referring to anyone as a "far right nut" is more appropriate than referring to you as a RINO ?

All the Star's bloggers get paid, John, including Daniel Goldberg, who writes a conservative blog for the Star. It's not much; I figure I make about 25 cents an hour.

I'm not going to post the photo; it was offensive. But here's a link to it posted elsewhere:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/images/obama-witchdoctor-muck.jpg

So, Star bloggers: Is this funny?

here's a photo for john
http://www.st-marys.hull.sch.uk/sites/history/images/kkk.jpg

here's a photo for john
http://www.st-marys.hull.sch.uk/sites/history/images/kkk.jpg

John, you used the term R.I.N.O. to define me - I am not. I used the term "right wing nut" for people who are delibrately propaging lies. I have met plenty of nuts on both sides - that is a problem for both Dems & Reps and is why the DTS voter block is the fastest growing block in CA.

Here's an excerpt from today's front page article in the LA TImes that is very appropriate for this blog:

Joe McQuade, a Houston writer, got so tired of hearing people yell at each other on TV shows like "Crossfire" and "Hardball" that he started an online forum, Civil Discourse. Its motto: "No insults, no food fights, no rants or idle chatter."

His 400 members used to be evenly split politically. In the last six months, though, he had to dismiss some of his conservative contributors.

"It was a small clique who would post incendiary stuff and insult people who disagree with them," said McQuade, mindful of the irony. This summer, he suspended them.

Katie, RINO now stands for Reasonable Informed Non Oddball.

John Stewart,

One of my sources was a federal government audit of care at VA facilities. If I'd known I would be challenged about it I would have saved the link. Among other things, it said that funding was inadequate for the load on the VA -- a problem well known for a long time by the way.

Another source is a vet who has not been receiving adequate care and has said so.

At worst I'm guilty of not qualifying my first post by saying that the reports may not be representative of all VA facilities. Many things can affect the quality of care, for instance, care received may well depend on how disabled you are or how complicated your case is. I've experienced this myself -- not every doctor or hospital can handle complicated problems. Believe me, I've been there!

We owe our vets Rolls Royce quality medical services and I don't believe that they're all getting it.

When speaking with a Republican about VA hospitals one has to remember that these are the people that didn't provide the U.S. troops the proper armored vehicles and helmuts in the first place. Republicans lied about the reasons to have an Iraq war and they called the people that spoke up about their lies unAmerican.

The Republicans from the start don't care about the troops. Why would they care about VA Hospitals? Why would the Republicans care about any American's healthcare?

Ronald Reagan drove the VA system into the ground. Then when a Democrat fixes it they are a tax and spending socialist. Republicans screw things up and steal and complain about the Democrats spending money fixing it.

Marie and others,

If you have been reading the Star this week you've seen additional reports of problems at the VA. I rest my case.

I do not simply badmouth anyone or anything without reason.