Jill Martinez and Michael Dukakis may be good people, but hardly seem like the team that the Dems need to dump the entrenched mediocrity that Elton Gallegly personifies as an office holder.

To all of the Democratic candidates running:

Nationwide netroots groups are willing to raise money for candidates IF candidates have the support of local blogs. But no candidate, except Mary Pallant, has really even tried to do anything beyond send in a press release here and there.

Organizing is an investment. Make a deposit.

The truth of the matter is Jill Martinez would get things done for the people of the 24th District.

Who has the experience that matches the challenges the citizens face?

Who would work better with the other members of Congress?

The new Democratic majority in Ventura County isn't voting for Elton; they are voting for change. What better way to create change than voting out one of Karl Rove's concubines in Congress.

Well said, Elton. We cannot cut and run in Iraq, as both Senator Clinton and Senator Obama have proposed in their campaigns, for the very reasons stated here by Congressman Gallegly. To do so would be to invite chaos and mayhem to a country whose people have suffered enough already at the hands of a ruthless dictator, Saddam Hussein. Iraq would absolutely become a magnet for every Jihadist terrorist organization under the sun, principally those in neighboring countries, such as Iran and Syria.

Let's do the right thing for the Iraqi people and the overall stability of the Middle East and help this country move forward before we begin a slow and methodical withdrawal that will be sensitive to the repercussions to this country and the endangerment of our troops that a forced, hasty, ill-planned withdrawal would put at risk.

Local Democrats won't attract outside help until they start investing in the netroots. Their Sacramento or DC based party organizations aren't going to come save them until they can at least attract attention online.

This race isn't in any DC target book that I know of. And it isn't mentioned by any of the big online grassroots organization. Maybe if the candidates started investing resources locally that would change. But they are running old campaign plans in a new age. Get active in mydd, dailykos, moveon.org, and other websites to attract attention.

Maybe get active here or on other local blogs. But if you can't attract online attention you won't attract print media. And if you can't attract print media you won't attract the average voter in this area.

I can't believe Brian was able to find footage of our longtime congressman. Eighty percent of the people that live in the district have probably never heard or seen this guy in their lives.

The words that he does offer are a meaningless pablum of excuses and slogans for continued war and risk of further loss of life and squander more of our treasure in a futile attempt to put back together the Humpty Dumpty of all nations.

The notion of winning this conflict is living a fantasy or playing upon the psyche of our brain-dead, sports-conscious public. At this juncture anyone who still cares that the nation is at war can be grouped into four camps:

1) Those committed to unlimited occupation until leaving behind a unified and politically and socially stable Iraq.

2) Those who believe that our primary objectives have been acheived and that it is up to the Iraqis to make a go of it even if it means the ultimate disolution of the country. The United States reaffirms its committment to freedom and human rights, offers diplomatic, humanitarian, and economic assistance and gets the hell out.

3) Those in favor of an immediate withdrawal of all forces regardless of the consequences.

I get pretty frustrated with Camps #1 and #3. Surprisingly, Elton is somewhere in Camp #2 and has come out in favor of a partitioning of Iraq. But Gallegly is very short on specifics and ultimately rubber stamps the Bushies in Camp #1.

Camp #1 is our only option at this point. One can argue all day long about how we erred by going into Iraq in the first place. But no one can deny that we now have a moral obligation to see this thing through to the end because we have already made a huge commitment by entering a country, ousting a ruthless dictator, and laying the groundwork for a government and populous that now has the chance to function as a free, productive, harmonious society.

You said 4 camps. What is camp 4?

While many "camps" of thought might be further disected until rendered as so many splinter groups, I can further distinguish two distinct supporters within Camp #1. They are:

1A) Those committed to unlimited occupation until leaving behind a unified and politically and socially stable Iraq.

1B) Those committed to unlimited occupation until leaving behind a unified and politically and socially stable Iraq aligned with U.S. economic, territorial, and political interests.

What many hawks are not willing to convey is that victory is not just an Iraq at peace, but a docile iraqi government willing to do the American's bidding as it concerns the delivery of crude oil and as a stooge in the war on terror. For many, Iraqi self-determination is not the real objective, but rather, the formation of a client state that would thwart Persian influence and not threaten those duplicitous bastards in Saudi Arabia.

I am also of the opinion that there is a moral obligation to assist a country that we claimed to liberate while inflicting death and injury to more than a million Iraqi men, women, and children. We do not have a moral obligation to impose our will upon the conquered. The spoils of war do not follow any sort of moral code that I know of and merely reflects the concept that might makes right.

The continued presence of U.S. forces as an occupying presence will only eventually undermine the credibility of the Maliki government. This quagmire that some insist is winnable is comparable to stratagies aimed at winning the lottery. Supporters of the Iraqi occupation say that the only way we can "win" is to "play". As we continue to play with fire our tax dollars go up in smoke and the only thing we can win in this rat hole is some degree of honor and self-respect. We will win neither given the dearth of diplomacy and the lack of candor that will be the ultimate legacy of the Bush administration.

R.J., while I find your conspiracy theories fascinating, under 1(B), they appear to me to be more the subject for a spy novel than a serious discussion of U.S. foreign policy objectives. I suppose you believe that 9-11 was an inside job as well.

Mongo. Do you honestly think we are in Iraq for the sake of the Iraqis or for our own interests? The only reason that conspiracy theories flourish is due to the legion of lies that have been crammed down the throats of the American people.

The WTC bombings were an act of terror that Bush and Cheney used as political cover for a war that was on the drawing boards long before 9/11. By elevating that horrific crime as an act of war, it immediately elevated the status of our enemies rather than diminish their standing as the cockroaches they truly are. They should be hunted down and shot dead or brought to justice for their crimes. Invading a country that bore no responsibility to those crimes will no doubt be looked upon by future scholars as one of the worst international blunders in American history.

Mongo. Are you in Camp 1A or Camp 1B?

How does Martinez plan to pay back the $97K+ debt she owes from the 2006 campaign? Maybe she's just running this time to raise money to retire her debt. Aren't there campaign finance laws that deal with this issue.

Check the link. I'm not making this up.

R.J., since Camp 1(B) is either a fantasy or an urban legend, depending on your orientation, I would have to say I'm solidly in Camp 1(A).

Do you support attacking Iran for the allegations against them?

Yes, I do. Ahmahdinejad is a madman, akin to Adolph Hitler, and needs to be stopped as soon as possible. If it weren't for the U.S. and a few of our allies, he would have attacked Israel already.

Yes, I do. Ahmahdinejad is a madman, akin to Adolph Hitler, and needs to be stopped as soon as possible. If it weren't for the U.S. and a few of our allies, he would have attacked Israel already.

Mongo,

Auditioning for a job on talk radio?

Not a bad idea, Harry. Hmmm.....

Stop the Presses!

I can see it now.

We can have our own radiophonic "Point-CounterPoint!"

Mongo Flamo will be our very own James Kirkpatrick and Harold Godwin will be our very own Shana Alexander..

Maybe we can persuade Jim Dantona to come-out of retirement and moderate their sessions. It would be quite a blast, don't you think?

I can't wait to see them both on the radio!

NostraDEMUS

Love the concept, NostaDEMUS. I will have my people contact Harold's people to work out the details. BTW, good to hear from you again, you've been off-line for a while, huh?

Mongo:

Yes indeed.

Deep cover, black operations, you know.

But never fear.

I had superlative night-vision-optics at my disposal and they confirmed with accuracy and precision the spatial dimensions of the Pachydermic targets of opportunity which were the object of the strategic reconnaisance operations.

Plato's dilemma is not mine.

NostraDEMUS